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Post by cowhunter on Jun 27, 2014 11:52:05 GMT -5
Kyle: I believe with a Rempac with a 209 system I was getting about 2720 fps but I want to re-test that this weekend (boat in the shop again). Now the crazy test results -- and results that may be similar to a Hankins system -- come from my Bullberry/Encore build with a PR system that uses rifle primers. I'll be retesting that too. In my last test the 70 grain H4198 was getting over 2950 fps! Not that speed or ignition efficiency is that important, but it is certainly a factor. Now sml may say these results come from a guy not rite in the head. Ok, I challenge you man to man. We can use "primer only at 20 yards target" or a scripture chase. You choose.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 13:43:20 GMT -5
I ain't right so that wouldn't prove nothing more than two ain't rite makes a wrong,LOL.......btw bout time you cleaned them trailer wheels,duracoat them green and they'll feel at home......
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 13:56:45 GMT -5
Kyle: I believe with a Rempac with a 209 system I was getting about 2720 fps but I want to re-test that this weekend (boat in the shop again). Now the crazy test results -- and results that may be similar to a Hankins system -- come from my Bullberry/Encore build with a PR system that uses rifle primers. I'll be retesting that too. In my last test the 70 grain H4198 was getting over 2950 fps! Not that speed or ignition efficiency is that important, but it is certainly a factor. Now sml may say these results come from a guy not rite in the head. Ok, I challenge you man to man. We can use "primer only at 20 yards target" or a scripture chase. You choose. Cowhunter, I have a challenge idea. 209 vs LR. Both guns "shot" vertically, wet patched jag on ramrods, 10 shots each. Measuring the distance that the ramrod goes up. Distance does not win. Lowest standard deviation wins. Kyle
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 14:12:43 GMT -5
Three double bubble gum..Chewed on...stuck on the end of the barrel and see which one blows a bigger bubble.....that would end All debate,.....
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jun 27, 2014 14:30:31 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 14:43:17 GMT -5
Bathroom Ammo.....That's probably similar to what Rossman mentioned about shooting with 209 primer only ....I have a garage I could shoot in... the bathroom is for the girls/ladies.......
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Post by wirtbowhunter on Jun 27, 2014 17:53:18 GMT -5
The 275 match hunters have worked well for me so far in my rempac. They fly true and will put the hurt on a whitetail. Have you tried the 275 gr BE's with the same charge? What is the accuracy comparison like between the two? Primer selection? Kyle No, when I talked to Bob Parker, he said the 275BE would be a grenade at 2750 fps. Thats my ave speed shooting 68 gr H4198 and 275MH. I have a 209 setup.
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Post by lwh723 on Jun 27, 2014 23:53:25 GMT -5
Have you tried the 275 gr BE's with the same charge? What is the accuracy comparison like between the two? Primer selection? Kyle No, when I talked to Bob Parker, he said the 275BE would be a grenade at 2750 fps. Thats my ave speed shooting 68 gr H4198 and 275MH. I have a 209 setup. I'm not sure what velocity the 275BE's aren't a grenade at. I shot them one year at about 2650FPS. Everything died, but didn't have a single pass through and all I found were bullet fragments. If the 275MH gets a little explosive at 2700 FPS, but it does typically give 2 holes.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 6:11:38 GMT -5
for sure the 275 BE at smokeless speeds is a bomb when it hits an animal, the 300s do a little better and will sometimes exit. both are way too destructive for my use in a smokeless. the 275 MH might frag some at close range but overall its a good bullet past 50 yds..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 11:34:40 GMT -5
I appreciate everyone's input and opinions within this thread. I have every intention of making it to Jeff's shoot in August. With the availability of components nowadays few and far between, it might be a good idea to have a swap meet up at the shoot, just need a way for everyone to communicate prior to going. I am looking forward to shooting my smokeless muzzleloader that Jeff is building for me. You all seem to be a good bunch of guys on this board. Thanks once again for your input. Kyle
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jun 28, 2014 19:11:33 GMT -5
The 275 BE is fragile but with that being said, they hammer whitetails. Avoid high shoulders and stick to boiler room shots. The fastest ive ever seen a deer drop was from a 275gr BE broadside boiler room shot that left the muzzle around 2400fps. It dropped so fast it looked like it got hit by lightning. Ballistic Gel tests courtesy of Doohan Approximate MV 2200fps. NULA 42gr SR4759. Impact about 50yards. It blew BOTH gel blocks off the table and damaged the plywood.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 19:46:26 GMT -5
Guys this is why I came here for your advice, not only do you all do field research, you all even do bathroom research. I will have to say that is pretty impressive to say the least. Any idea on the weight retention on those in the picture? Kyle
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Post by hankinsrfls on Jun 28, 2014 19:53:34 GMT -5
You should see a whitetail drop when it's hit with one at 3000 FPS muzzle velocity.. Boiler room shots drop em like a hammer.. Head shots will remove the head completely. I would post a picture but can not for the life of me figure out how to do it with this iPhone... Can any one help?
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Post by lwh723 on Jun 28, 2014 20:04:04 GMT -5
You should see a whitetail drop when it's hit with one at 3000 FPS muzzle velocity.. Boiler room shots drop em like a hammer.. Head shots will remove the head completely. I would post a picture but can not for the life of me figure out how to do it with this iPhone... Can any one help? Get the photo bucket app. Load picture to photobucket and then you should be able to copy a link from there. I've posted these elsewhere before, but here's a few of my carnage shots. Most MV are around 2650 FPS. 310ABP 310APB 275MH @ 15 yards facing me (yes, that's a skid mark down its back) Closeup of above 275MH
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 20:13:14 GMT -5
Has anyone ever watched badbulls advertisement on their site? The 275BE at 3100 makes a doe look like a groundhog hit with a VMax at 4200fps. Not a great meat bullet at that speed but I've never seen one deader.
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Post by kralik4jr on Jun 28, 2014 20:25:25 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 20:40:16 GMT -5
these guns are as powerful as any bear stick out there. They would stop MR GRIZ as well as anything with a 300 or 327 MH, better make sure its on when you pull the trigger though or get awfully fast at reloading.
I built one for a guy two years ago that was planning a brownie hunt, never heard if he went or maybe he didn't come back??
My carnage pics are pretty much the same as what we see here, the guy I hunted on last year said OMG did you shoot it with a cannon?
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Post by hankinsrfls on Jun 28, 2014 20:53:43 GMT -5
First off let me say 7,000 was way over priced, second off theirs people that want a Cadillac, some just want a raged out ford.. Some fish from Jon boats and others from a bass boat.. If a man works hard for his money others should not criticize him for spending if for things he wants... As the same goes for a man that has nothing should not be ridiculed for what he don't have.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 21:22:31 GMT -5
Jeff, I hope nobody wanted to poke at your product. You have a set price available to be seen on your website. As for the 7000 that was a number thrown out there with the extraordinary nightforce scope and all figured in. The scope itself is over 50% of the starting price for your rifles. No doubt Kyle will have what would be the showpiece of my collection and he has you to fall back on with any questions or issues. Some guys on this site really appreciate the turn key guns you and other builders can provide, others prefer to do their own tinkering and testing. To each their own and I appreciate the information gained from listening to both sides of the fence.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Jun 28, 2014 21:37:34 GMT -5
Myers129
To each their own is what I'm saying. Some guys can do their own builds, some can't. I admire those who can and want to as that is how I got my start in the rifle business.. Some guys can hunt for parts and pieces and build a rifle for penny's and that's part of the fun for them.. Others just want to open the box and have everything in that box that they need to shoot, hunt and have fun..
As for the diyselfers, I will be offering Brux barrels threaded and ready for install on Savage and Remington actions in the near future. Threaded for savage plugs or for my system... Complete with a sizing die for full form and smooth form bullets.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 22:10:23 GMT -5
Myers129 To each their own is what I'm saying. Some guys can do their own builds, some can't. I admire those who can and want to as that is how I got my start in the rifle business.. Some guys can hunt for parts and pieces and build a rifle for penny's and that's part of the fun for them.. Others just want to open the box and have everything in that box that they need to shoot, hunt and have fun.. As for the diyselfers, I will be offering Brux barrels threaded and ready for install on Savage and Remington actions in the near future. Threaded for savage plugs or for my system... Complete with a sizing die for full form and smooth form bullets. This will be very interesting to look at when your ready to have this available.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jun 28, 2014 23:55:50 GMT -5
Guys this is why I came here for your advice, not only do you all do field research, you all even do bathroom research. I will have to say that is pretty impressive to say the least. Any idea on the weight retention on those in the picture? Kyle Shot 1 : 32" penetration, 251.7 gr retained Shot 2 : 19.5" penetration, 193.9 gr retained My post was strictly for information. Its not an endorsement for your application. I will say they have been very accurate for me. I may use them again this year in my NULA but at a bit less FPS to reduce the recoil. That kind of fpe really thumps in an ultra light when my back is already hurting
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Post by bigmoose on Jun 29, 2014 6:44:58 GMT -5
I know a gent that doesnt hunt, loves to shot, has two Westley RIchards double rifles, more power to him, wish it was me {smile]
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Post by lwh723 on Jun 29, 2014 17:29:02 GMT -5
First off let me say 7,000 was way over priced, second off theirs people that want a Cadillac, some just want a raged out ford.. Some fish from Jon boats and others from a bass boat.. If a man works hard for his money others should not criticize him for spending if for things he wants... As the same goes for a man that has nothing should not be ridiculed for what he don't have. Jeff you're getting defensive again. Nobody said anything about it being overpriced--just that it should be nice for the money. Advertised price on your website for a gun with a Boyds stock is $3900. Add in a Manners and a $2300 NF and $7K sounds like a conservative estimate to me, but maybe you're cutting Kyle a deal. Whatever, it doesn't matter to me how people spend their money. Hell, speaking of spending money, I was dumb enough to marry a crazy horse woman for a while. I'll leave worrying about other people's money to the Liberals. I will say one nice thing about these MZ's that are based on the 700SA CF is a simple rebarrel and you're back to nice custom CF if the MZ thing doesn't work out.
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Post by sparkman on Jun 29, 2014 17:48:27 GMT -5
Crazy Horse woman....+ 1....
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Post by hankinsrfls on Jun 29, 2014 18:54:25 GMT -5
Not defensive, just stating some facts.. My price on the website includes a lot of extras like a full form and a smooth form bullet sizer a ram rod and farrel, spin jag, 100 Parker BE bullets, a sizing press, extra breech plugs and primer holders and a lee priming tool. The rifle also come with a powder funnel/muzzle protector and de-capping stand and a decapping punch.. a guy can opt out of any and or all of these excessories if he does not want or need them. brining the total cost down several hundred dollars.. All this extra stuff is shipped in a sportsman carrying box for convenience. When someone purchases one of my ML's they are getting the total package... Not just a rifle... Only thing I don't ship is the gun powder and primers...
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 29, 2014 19:58:05 GMT -5
You don't have to defend anything when you are a custom builder if you can account for where the money goes. I still am not sure where all the money goes. Not saying your kit isn't worth the coin but it doesn't add up for me. When a "custom" Remington breaks the $3K mark you should always reevaluate what you are doing; regardless of who did the work it is used Remington when you are done with it. I don't feel like your gun couldn't hit $7K with a quickness if you added any upgrades (Cerakote, aftermarket trigger, brake, etc) and good glass in good mounts. Most of my rifles have $5K with SFP glass. A good FFP will get you up to $6500. It's not like he said you were David Miller who charges a minimum of $13K for a laminated stock Marksman.
A Swinglock commands custom money because it is just that, custom. He manufactures a custom action. He shapes a custom stock. He has a patent-pending or patented sizing die/dies. He was even willing to make one for me that looked like an English Sporting Rifle (minus the Manton breech, hammer, etc. but with styling of late 19th century). That gun was going to cost $4K with additional options costing more.
I worked for a gunsmith through high school and college and since have had some really talented and well equipped friends who do my rifle work that I can't do so I might not be the best guy to weigh in on this. Sort of like I balk at paying $29/lbs for rifle powder; I still have powder on my shelf that says $19/lbs and I didn't pay the retail mark-up (I'm 32 for for frame of reference and 7yrs out of college).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2014 21:15:20 GMT -5
I had one of those crazy horse women several years back and before she was done all I had left was child support, my hunting property and hunting stuff. I have since recovered, heck after that ordeal 7K for a gun package sounds like a deal to me.... a man can spend what a man wants to spend on a gun be it 700 or 7000 and all he will get from me is " enjoy"
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Post by cowhunter on Jul 2, 2014 12:54:13 GMT -5
You can't judge any "deal" without knowing everything, but I feel certain that if you bought a gun from, or made a deal with, any of the regulars who have submitted posts here, you got a good deal. None of these guys make millions. I bet they charge about enough to enable them to keep doing what they love. And even if they make a few bucks, they did it while providing what they promised. Richard, fishhawk, Hankins, iwh723, Rossman40, and even Hillbill all put incredible hours in and have rare skills specific to SML. I think Tom Post fits in this group too. Now if it caused them to lose their crazy horse wives, they got a windfall and should refund all our money.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Jul 2, 2014 13:03:23 GMT -5
Very well put.....
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