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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 11, 2014 19:35:55 GMT -5
I had a Sako L691 .270 Win (semi-beavertail walnut stocked, heavy fluted barrel; not sure if it was called Varmint or what) with a long throat only rivaled by a Custom KS .300 Wby Mag that would shoot in the .2s at 100-200yds with Sierra 130gr Pro Hunters; in general is shot flat bases better than boat-tail bullets at 100yds. Everything else was closer to .6-.7MOA. At longer ranges the Sierra 130gr GameKings began to hold better groups. I have an AR-15 that will shoot 69gr Sierra MatchKings in the .2-.3s at 100yds and the 75gr Hornady's will shoot .3 to 300yds and around MOA to 600yds. My NULA shoots the MH and BE bullets in the .3-.4s at 100yds but opens up to a touch over 1MOA at 300yds with the MH and I don't shoot the BE that far. I haven't shot many of them but my gun seems to like the Thor hollow-base also (which for Cowhunter is an option down the road but is not my 25m target)
I personally don't think there is any way to predict what a gun will digest easily. That is why I am willing to do both. I think the flat base has more and simpler fixes for the SML application and the boat-tail will require specialized fixes (the donut duplex wad I mentioned) if it needs any at all.
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Post by Dave W on Jun 12, 2014 4:21:57 GMT -5
Think I would stay away from a tapered jacket which gives un-uniform springback dimensions when sized like the SST/FTX.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 12, 2014 13:05:21 GMT -5
Talking to some die makers, the consensus is poly tipped is not really feasible without a large investment in die casting of points or machinging them. They say the plastics that are soft enough to swage have too much memory to form a good point and you would end up with a semi-spitzer at best. One either has to turn points from Delrin or cast points from better polymers. One guy in particular said he had a client who wanted to try points bad enough he invested $10K in moulds. I guess that leaves us with OTM for now and aluminum points down the road if we really want to try that.
Endstate, for .451" bullet with this set of dies, is you can get an OTM or Aluminum tipped (flat base or boattail) bullet with similar flight characteristics to the MH in any weight you want. I'll place the order and work out the details of the bullet design with the die maker then when I get the dies I will start making and testing bullets.
Since everyone has a 275, 300, or 327 grain bullet to shoot already should I try to make those weights so guys have cost effective training bullets or should we go for the heavies Jeff has been polling?
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Post by Richard on Jun 12, 2014 15:03:08 GMT -5
If you go for the real heavies, you will loose a lot shooters who have no interest in 600 yard shots? Probably, the majority of people on this forum will never shoot over 300 yards and more likely 200 or less? 275 to 300 would be more in the ballpark. You will surely narrow the pool of buyers with those super heavy bullets. IMHO. It seems that when we got into this .45 thing, the attraction was for lighter high speed bullets with less recoil and now? Richard
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 12, 2014 16:22:19 GMT -5
I agree with your point on narrowing the pool. I also don't have much interest in anything over 327gr at 2200fps because I shoot pretty light guns since I carry mine. I'm inclined to start at 300gr (give or take a little either way) so that I can get as many guys as possible to test them. I'm afraid the design will need a faster twist than most guys shoot if we go a lot over 325gr.
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Post by bestill on Jun 12, 2014 18:44:59 GMT -5
For some strange reason i like to have a bullet around 285-290 being selfish but my gun would love that. Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 20:50:49 GMT -5
My personal preference would be anywhere 300 grains and under, down to 250ish, but I'm not a long range shooter either. Will definitely be willing to try out whatever you come up with.
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Post by mtj555 on Jun 13, 2014 6:06:50 GMT -5
Keith,
Are you going to have these done by the time I get back from Afghanistan? If you start testing and need more guns to test with, go pick up my Savage and the Bad Bull when it gets back and use them until I get home. I need to call on it this week to get a timeline.
Mike
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 13, 2014 7:07:53 GMT -5
I hope to be started by then but timeline is pending die maker's timeline. He and I are still sorting out the design. Thanks for the offer on the guns. If you need me to call Roger and light a fire under him let me know. Since we are the topic, are you going to stick with the 275gr or go up some in the Bad Bull?
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Post by deadeye on Jun 13, 2014 8:02:04 GMT -5
fwiw on bullet weights- I spoke w/ bob parker approx. 6 mo's ago regarding mh's...... I made a statement suspecting 275's would outsell the others. bob said no- not true at all,said they sell pretty much evenly overall,275,300,327
I think with that said & what we see on the board here I would make available these 3 approx. weights & possibly expand later if a demand arises.
jmho
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Post by edge on Jun 13, 2014 9:03:19 GMT -5
Keith, Are you going to have these done by the time I get back from Afghanistan? SNIP. First thank you for your service, but the question might unfortunately be will we be out of there by the time our grand children are old enough to shoot! edge.
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Post by mtj555 on Jun 13, 2014 13:44:12 GMT -5
Keith,
The 275's shoot great but I would like to see how well the 300 and 327s will shoot out of it. If I can get the 327s sized properly and figure out a good load for it, I would probably just shoot the 327s out of it. but I am not ruling out the 300MH. I like the higher bc of the 327 and 300 for wind, elevation is easy to adjust for.
Edge,
I thought Keith and I last deployment was the last time I was going to be here and here I am again. The run off presidential elections start 8hrs from now. Hopefully the candidates survive tomorrows fun and games and this country gets a new president elected so we can move forward. Unfortunately I think we will have troops in some capacity over here for a long time.
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Jun 13, 2014 16:27:22 GMT -5
Thank you for your service to our country.
I would buy and try whatever you build, but it seems we have many .45 cAliber premium options and very little In the way of .40 high BC options. I think 45Omega has had good luck with special run CEBs, but that's about it.
If you are just experimenting to experiment I get it, but if you are trying to put out something with little competition I'd vote for a high BC .40 at 220-240 grains.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 16:34:36 GMT -5
A friend is working with a company for some new 40 copper bullets. They will more than likely be sabotless only like the Cutting Edges. Should be ready for testing soon.
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Post by Jon on Jun 13, 2014 18:56:31 GMT -5
Please keep us updated on the .40 bullets. Like was stated .40 bullets with a high BC are hard to find.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 13, 2014 19:15:34 GMT -5
I'm all for trying the .40 but right now I do not have a .40 barrel. It's on my "to-do" list but right now I can either do a new barrel (or three) or press and dies.
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Post by Jon on Jun 13, 2014 20:55:25 GMT -5
If it comes that you want to try .40 I would be willing to loan you a gun. My prime interest right now is a do everything ignition system and my 6.5.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 14, 2014 7:51:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the offer. I'm always surprised by the generosity of (most) hunters and shooters.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 17, 2014 10:48:09 GMT -5
Bullet profile is sorted out and dies ordered: .451" OTM/VLD with punches for flat base and rebated boattail. Lead time looks to be about 5 months so bullet making and testing will be a good, post-hunting season, winter activity.
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Post by edge on Jun 17, 2014 11:23:55 GMT -5
Bullet profile is sorted out and dies ordered: SNIP. How many caliber ogive did you go with? edge.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 18, 2014 15:59:26 GMT -5
14S-.040"
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 18, 2014 16:06:55 GMT -5
This is the reamer blank (bullet will be blued portion):
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Post by Alabama on Jun 18, 2014 22:01:41 GMT -5
7mm. I look forward to the completed bullet and if looks make any difference it looks like it will fly well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 8:29:56 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, does the spin jag for the match hunters fit the profile of this bullet? Looks like it will be an awesome bullet, has the look of a proper rifle bullet.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 19, 2014 10:01:14 GMT -5
The Spin Jag for the Match Hunter line should fit this bullet as well. I was careful to keep the ogive profile close to where it needed to be to fit the jag without exceeding the max length to tip but still achieve proper balance as on OTM.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 19, 2014 10:09:42 GMT -5
Final Note on design:
We reworked it to swage at .458" so everyone can shoot it: smooth form .451 to be a land rider in .458 barrels, full-form full-bore in .458 barrels, or full-form full-bore in .451 barrels. I do not think it can be drawn down to .442 to be a land rider in .451 barrels and maintain integrity. I can only draw the bullets down by .010" without damaging them so they can be had in .451-.452 with a little room to spare.
It might even be an option for those in states that only allow pistol cartridges if you can shoot a .45-70. I may do some testing with it in a .458 Win Mag as well.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 24, 2014 16:27:55 GMT -5
Here is the bottom half of a new heavy duty bench for the swaging press. Should be finished tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 17:21:29 GMT -5
7mm, that looks ALOT like my bench, mine is coverd in barn siding with doors on the front. Nice!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 17:49:41 GMT -5
"I should have said, that looks like an identical twin to my bench, minus the barn siding and doors. Nice work, it'll make a nice strurdy work place.
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Post by Richard on Jun 24, 2014 18:58:29 GMT -5
So, your saying this .458" bullet will sized down to .451"? In a Smooth Swinglock die? If that is the case, the jacket has to be thinner than those on bullets like Hornady and Barnes etc..............Since they will not reduce in a Swinglock smooth die. Your statement above is a little confusing......"full-form full-bore in .458 barrels, or full-form full-bore in .451 barrels" Richard
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