What a bad thing....

[wilmsmeyer]

They say that no matter how careful you are, accidents can happen. I for one, do not subscribe to this 100%. Yes, accidents can happen but they also can, or could have been, prevented! Period. I've held on to this one for 6 weeks because I am just getting over the pure shock of it. Let me set the table:

At camp, we have quite a bunch of guys. The "originals". 6 or 7 45-55 year olds that grew up with guns from an early age. A crop of 20 somethings that have grown up among us. And a few guys that have just been part of the camp for decades.

Last weekend of ML season and we were doing drives for does. Snow was over 2 feet deep. One of our best friend who have been part of deer camp and fishing trips for almost 30 years has been in very poor health. A bad heart and his morning diet is mouthfuls of prescription pills for many ailments. This guy has fished 24/7/265 hid whole life and hunted everything that walks, runs or flys year round....in season of course. Shoots trap league all year. Great guy. Well, with the snow so deep and his health condition, we drop him off at a spot where he can walk 100 yds, be on the edge of a steep gully and watch for deer crossing from the direction of the drivers. We do the drive, kill a few deer and slowly start to re-group back towards camp. We radio our friend to let him know the drive is over and to meet us back where we dropped him off. No answer. Call his cell. No answer. Now everyone is back at camp and we decide to drive around the block and see if we can find him. Nope. Crap...what happened to him??? So we gather at camp and decise that myself and another would go back and track him and make sure he didn't have a geart attack or fall into the steep gully.

Driving up the road to where we dropped him off 2 hrs ago...there he is walking down the road. Oh thank goodness....he's fine. Stop the truck and find out that his radio went dead and he left his phone at camp. He is cold, out of breath and so glad we are there. He's over weight, breathing hard and ready to get in the truck. He opens the door, sets his Savage ML10 in the truck, barrel 1st and is about to step in. Out of breath and exhausted he says "Oh, let me take the primer out". I am in the backseat of the quad cab pick-up and my friend is driving. Our friend, big fat gloves still on, moves the safety to the off position so he can open the bolt and......POW! Both my friend and I, in hind sight, saw a potential problem coming. My friend actually was reaching for the door and bailing out when he saw what was happening. I was just watching thinking..WTF...but things happened quick.

The cabin was filled with the smell of gun powder. My ears were ringing. My mind was racing. My friend was running down the road with his hands clasped over his head. I was chasing him along with our friend who was hysterical over what he had done. I was watching for blood in the snow as my friend ran down the road in shock. Not sure if anyone was actually hurt yet.

The muzzle had been against the center hump in the floor board. The Barnes 250 gr copper, ahead of 70 gr H4198, had made it thru the tranny housing and totally messed it up. Tranny fluid was all over. The guy who had the accident was crying and we thought that he would have a heart attack over what had happened. Can you imagine?? Guy has hunted his whole life. Been careful and safe all the time. A moment of misjudgement could have killed or harmed his best friends. He was a mess. We finally, in shoock, all got back in the truck and tried to limp it back to camp. But we didn't make it. Had to ditch the thruck as the tranny wouldn't shift and the truck wouldn't go anymore. Big heavy Dodge diesel and heavy duty tranny. Making a call to camp to get rides was a tough one.

Had a 60 year old guy crying, a 60 yr guy who owned the truck, and me in shock. Didn't say anything to the other guys except that we beached the truck and needed a ride.

The rest of the weekend was awkward. We all were quiet. This stuff doesn't happen to us or people like us. But it did. The tranny was toast and has since been rebuilt for the tune of $2000. The guy sent a check for the repair and was afraid he'd lost his friends for ever. We have since calmed him down and told him to get over it, learn from it and not let this ruin our decades long friendship.

So I have not talked about this until today. A complete life changing event that I am still in shock from. Could have been so much worse. We are all very safe hunters and I know, like my friend, that we assumed since our friend was at the road, he was un-capped. He had forgot due to the circumstances, the cold and his health. Instead of thinking clearly, he tried to uncap the gun once in the truck. Big fat fingars, in gloves, with agun that requires you take the gun off safe to open the bolt.

Lessons happen at all stages of life. We are still alive and learning. We chose to use this as an example to prove that we are never too safe. Never too careful. Always room for improvement.

[Deleted]

First off Im glad nobody got hurt. Its hard to talk about such incidents especially when good friends are involved but stories such as these remind ALL of us that careless stuff can and does happen even among seasoned veterans.. It seems that the older I get the more accident prone I become, maybe its just carelessness or maybe even old age creeping up on me as bad as I hate to admit it. whatever the reason I have to constantly be on my toes..

Carelessness cost me an acl replacement three years ago when climbing into a tree stand with frost on the aluminum steps and I had gloves on which didn't help things. long story short I had to do a controlled drop in the darkness from 12 feet and landed with all my weight on my right leg which severed my acl, hyperextended the ligaments in the back of my knee, compaction fractures on the end of both bones and torn cartilage in three places. Me being the DA that I am I climbed right back up and hunted for three hours before having to hobble out of the woods ( I was mad at myself). I rode my mtn bike in that morning but needless to say it was used as a crutch on the way out..


I admire guys like you Wilms that have the guts to tell this kind of story to remind us that we are all human and it can happen at any time to anyone. its far too easy to keep our mouths shut and sweep these things under the rug, problem is in doing so we are robbing others of real life lessons that they can learn a great deal from.

Again, Im glad no one got hurt and that you shared this with us all...

[rileydog]

I friend of mine did the exact same thing with a center fire rifle in a dodge truck trough the transmission also . He has hunted 30 years . You try to be as careful as possible but were human . My rifles go in the case in bed of the truck. Not better than anyone else just something I do . But I have double loaded a muzzle loader . Lucky I caught It as soon as I did it . All humans WILL make mistakes.

[Deleted]

The same scenario....seasoned hunters lapsing safety for the split second ...this time no harm..who knows next time....Thanks for sharing Wilms.....IMO if you see an unsafe situation ..say something about it and be the dickhead for the moment ...but might you just save somebodys life......a simple "Are you Loaded or not is not to much to ask/remind someone that just is wore out and doesn't think about it..thats all I'm saying...

[ET]

Wilmsmeyer

Thanks for sharing that wakeup call/reminder. Glad no one was hurt during this incident.
We often become complacent when we’ve done something for many years that never proved dangerous until something goes wrong. Of course with age forgetfulness sometimes afflicts us as well when making decisions for actions under stress. We are all vulnerable to making a mistake and all we can do is minimize the possibility with certain responses.

Another area that a lot of people bypass is reading the manual that comes with equipment or don’t refresh themselves when a certain piece of equipment has not been used for some time. This can also include a firearms manual such as the 10ML-II. It has a 3-position safety where the bolt can be operated without concern of discharging if it is set in the mid position. At the range I often use the mid position when loading and for final placement of primer. Then when I’m ready to shoot I slide it into the fire position.

I will also admit that if I didn’t use this feature as much as I have and in a quick moving stressful situation there is a good chance I would forget about it. My saving grace is that my firearm is always pointed in a safe direction that does not endanger life. This has been one lesson instilled in me from day one and have never forgot it.

Even with the above mention I still manage to wound (sounds better than shot) my truck one moose season. Left a 12” groove on my hood that I had to repair afterwards. The repair wasn’t super expensive but definitely taught me a valuable lesson. To this day I have never tried to last minute check my sights off the hood of a truck.

Can we predict or prevent all accidents? Let me give an account and you be the judge.
On a cold sunny day a few of us were rabbit hunting. We were in the bush spread out in a line about 10yds apart. Rabbit (15yds out front) bolted from under a fallen tree and the man beside me shot his 12Ga. He got the rabbit but got a piece of me also. A pellet ricochet off the frozen fallen tree and embedded itself in my chest after penetrating all my clothing. Had it hit me in the eye I would have lost that eye. After that incident many of us started to wear shooting glasses.

Ed

[edge]

Very scary story, glad everyone is safe.

ET, excellent point of the safety.
I put the safety on before closing the bolt every time.

I had a pre-accutrigger ML-II model and swapped out the trigger for a Timney so I could get a lighter more consistent pull.
I originally set it too low and it would fire if you closed the bolt without the safety on.
I do like a light trigger and since switching to the Accutrigger model I feel a lot safer using the target spring in the field.

edge.

[ET]

Edge

Like you I enjoy a lighter trigger pull with minimum creep. From Spring to Fall I have developed a good recognition of amount of pressure I put on a trigger with my finger but when colder weather sets in I lose that touchy feely recognition as my fingers start to numb some. This is probably due to poorer circulation from my now diabetic condition.
So far a trigger setting of 3-lbs is sufficient that I don’t inadvertently release a shot prematurely in cold weather. When I use a firearm I want to confidently feel I’m in control of that shot.
The original pre-accutrigger did adjust nicely to this level without a hitch so I never replaced it with an aftermarket trigger.

Like you and many others we want to put safety first when considering or making any modifications/adjustments. This board has taken on a life of its own in the pioneering field and new developments. What I really recognize most is your contribution for this board’s continuation that makes all this possible to share. And of course the modifications you originally introduced that I employ also.

Thank You


Ed

[Dave W]

Tell your buddy Wilms that he is not the first, nor the last I bet to discharge a gun in a vehicle accidentally. Buddy that worked at a local gun shop relayed this story to me.
Two guys in a truck, probably road hunting, during ML season. Passenger had his smokepole standing upright between his legs, gun was capped and went off blowing a hole through the roof of the cab. Can't imagine the smoke that enveloped the inside of the truck cab nor the stench of black powder and whatever they deposited in their drawers.

Doesn't make it any less scary or comforting that it happened to you three, but like I said, not the first or last to make that mistake. All you can do is learn from it and not repeat the same mistake.

I agree with you, most accidents should never happen. Guy I work with says I am a pessimist because I expect things to go wrong, I counter that I am a realist, if it can go wrong, it usually does. You have to stay on your toes and watch for trouble signs to avoid accidents.

Owner of our company, which is a glass shop, told me once that most work related accidents and injuries were by the more experienced individuals. This surprised me at the time but after thinking about it, it made sense. The younger guys still had that fear of getting cut bad so they respected the glass more. Us older guys are more confident and complacent in our glass handling, so we end up getting sliced more often. Fear is a great motivator apparently.

[wilmsmeyer]

As if in slow motion after our friend said, "oh, let me take the primer out" from the time the gun went off was about 2-3 seconds. When the words came out of his mouth my brain processed this as something bad. The gun was in the truck and you have to slide the safety forward to do that. He had gloves on. Good luck getting it to the intermediate position with big fat gloves, a racing heart and all that. Was huffing and puffing and a little fatigued from the 2 hrs out in the cold. My other friend as well was on alert. Mind you, the words and the shot were 2-3 seconds apart.

The driver was grabbing the door handle to bail out as the gun went off. It was split second instinct. I watched as he fumbled for 1-2 seconds before I could react and say WHOA. The deafening noise and reality of what happened was upon me before I could completely process what was happening although I swear my instinct saw a problem in that 1-2 seconds. It was that quick. We assumed, due to our groups diligence that the gun was uncapped. We all do it well before we reach a road or vehicle. It's common, decades old, practice by all of us. We are a safe bunch and we are very wary of any new people that might be around. We all take shells out of our guns WAY before reaching the road. Why? because there is no reason to be ready to kill a deer at that point.

Humans are not perfect. This guy proved it. My other friend and I proved it. However, even in hindsight, how do you ask a 60 yr old best friend if his gun is unloaded/uncapped? You know him as good as anyone you've ever known and you just know it would be an insult to ask. OF COURSE it's not loaded!! We've hunted for decades together and we all know what safety is about. Why would you even ask me that?? Do you think I'm stupid???

Like I said, A bad situation for all. The most panicky part of the whole thing was watching the driver bail out and run down the road with his hands over his ears. I swear I thought he had taken a hit in the foot or leg. I bailed out yelling at him..."ARE YOU OK?? ARE YOU HIT?" No response...just more walking away. The guy who shot the gun was with me following him crying and saying "OH MY GOD OH MY GOD" breathing terribly heavy. I was looking for blood in the road...looking at each of them. Was this guy hit? Was this guy going to have a heart attack over what he did.

All terrible and all preventable. A few guys at camp have said that in 10 years, if we are alive, we will have a few chuckles over this. Not me. I'm sure they've said it because they know how traumatized we were and how much we all needed a stress relief. A way to get back on track as a group.

We were lucky and that's the way it is

[10ga]

Glad no one was injured. Always lessons to be learned and an edge to be maintained whenever around/doing dangerous stuff. As a 40 year hunter safety instructor I know of my share of "real life" stuff that happened. I have been present for a couple "accidents" and thank goodness the "muzzle in a safe direction" was in place and no personal injuries resulted or 2K of damage. I have even had my own mishap and will say it involved a 1911 45ACP GI issue, they were designed to go boom and do so with authority. I also remind everybody at the club or group that "safety first" while on the hunt, every morning before heading out, some kinda have that "I've heard this enough look" and I still do it every day. I've been involved in draging 2 DRT guys out of the woods and fishing several out of the river, not firearms related, and it is not a thing you want to do EVER! Best and stay safe all! 10 ga

[brute]

Same as with power tools, heavy machinery, or large animals - sometimes familiarity breeds contempt or at least complacency . Being no one was physically injured let's use this as a wake-up call for us to be diligent in our safety concerns and watch out for each other.

[Deleted]

Glad everyone was unharmed, thanks for sharing. That goes to everyone who shared a story....Scary and makes ya stop and think for sure... Thanks again.

[kennacl55]

This story is sad but true. One of the guys that hunts with us in ohio done the same thing in Michigan to his own truck while unloading his gun with the muzzle pointing into the truck, it made a big mess of the wiring harness, my buddy from ohio had just warned him about this a week before, nobody got hurt but it makes me wonder if this taught him a serious lesson. I really hope he learned a lesson by his unacceptable mistake.

[hemicuda]

Keep the muzzle in a safe direction is key- usually down. If in the air someone could get hit even 3 miles away as happened in Ohio a few years ago to a young girl. She died on the spot. No one was hurt in this case because of the safe direction of the muzzle. Trucks can be fixed although embarrassing but lesson learned. I have been present on several occasions where accidents happened but no one was hurt. Thank the Lord!
With that said, 'Keep your guard up' as it could happen to any of us. Again thanks for sharing and maybe in 20-30 years you can smile....