Range Rep. - Full Form Sabotless Nirvana Barnes TSX (almost)

[onecardchuck]

Reader PLEASE NOTE that this load and bullet combo creates a bit under 50 Kpsi (thanks to traces by TGinPA) and is deemed safe in my barrel but may not be in yours. I have accepted the fact that shooting the heavier bullets out of a .45 caliber barrel have pushed me over the 40,000 Kpsi lighter bullet max created by RBinAR. In doing so I have accepted the fact that I have removed a certain margin of safety in case I screw up and double load or shoot my ramrod down range.

Setup:
- Pacnor #7 contour 25 inch long barrel.
- Stock with aluminum bedding block, skim bedded using pillar shims from ernie the gunsmith.
- Rem 700 ML action and trigger with 2 lb spring set at 2.5 1b.
- Calahan recoil lug.
- leupold QRW rings and bases sporting a nikon 4.5 x 14 buckmaster.
- Savage hex head bushing plug (new). ( Some blowback but not a lot especially once things got carboned up.)
- CCI 209M primer.

Barnes TSX 300 grain FB is the bullet used.

All bullets where scored with a crimping tool for easier line up when running them through the FF dye multiple times, and when indexing to the lands on the barrel.

Lessons learned:
- When sizing bullets to get them to an almost perfect fit to the bore. They will load on any land orientation you choose but there is always one land the
same for all bullets that the bullet loads a little easier on and can be field loaded using two arms. Indexing to the other lands may require a bit of
hammering to get the bullet down the barrel.
- After running the bullet through the dye 6 to 7 times I will leave them sitting on my bench for 24 hours and then run them through the dye again to feel if any
spring back has occurred. Some bullets go through the dye with the same resistance but some will have to be rerun through the dye 2 or 3 times to get them to go through
the dye with the same resistance as all the other bullets.
- Wool wad under bullet helps keep ES down.

Things to note:
- The #2 and #4 group bullets are the targets marked with a "T" where run through the FF dye 6 to 7 times to get the same feel going through the die and
loading down the barrel.
- The #1 and #3 are targets marked with an "L" where made with the same dye setting but only run through the FF dye 3 times and them run through a small
piece of barrel drop.
- All bullets loaded with two arms and alot of pressure once barrel was fouled. Shot 2 foulers before shot for groups.
- Same load through out range session 15 grains over 55 grains - N110/ H322 and this load has some kick but not terrible to shoulder.
- POA for all targets was the red circle with cross hairs in it.

To say I am very encouraged by groups 2 and 4 is an under statement and I look forward to tweeking the bullet fit a little more for the next range session for now this dog will hunt for 2013. Good luck to everyone this year.



100 yards


100 yards


200 yards


200 yards

[jeremylong]

I really like the terminal performance of that bullet. I shot several deer with those last year. The only way to recover one is to send it long ways threw a deer about 200. Basically 100% weight retention too.

[Dave W]

Chuck, great shooting and report.

Whether it is coincidence or not, I am seeing the same thing in regards to the bullet loading with less resistance on certain lands in the .442.
Last couple groups I decided to use a veggie wad to see if there was any difference between wad and wadless. My ES also shrunk back down to a more satisfactory level.

[sw]

Great report. I appreciate that you, like Richard, show the good, the bad, and the ugly. However, there seems to be little bad or ugly. The ES and variance is typically small as so many of the duplex loads have. I would appreciate your going into detail about your full form die.

[deadeye]

nice report- I see the same vertical(pressure difference's) when sizing is just close but not perfect so to speak//sizing is somewhat tedious but with patience not hard at all. great shooting etc!

[onecardchuck]

Thanks everyone for the kind words.

jeremylong good to hear from you again I agree I love this bullet and have decided to stick with it due to great weight retention and clean kill with out wasting to much meat and it can take down almost anything.

Dave W I agree using a wad versus no wad makes a world of difference with the ES. I have used veggie wads before but seem to get tighter groups with the wool wads in my gun.

deadeye I agree sizing can be a bit tedious but once you get the hang of it its not bad at all and the results are well worth it.

sw I have learned from Richard just tell it like it is and let others decide for themselves if they like it. My swinglock full form dye setup is an RCBS rock chucker press mounted on my bench which is re-enforced by 2x4's and I am using a cheater bar to get these bullets to go through the dye. I have to hang on the bar a bit to get the bullet to go through the dye and the temp must be above 40 degrees. Also I have now found a setting that works pretty good and can only probably increase the bullet sizing in 1/4 to 1/2 tick increments before the bullet will size to a diameter that will not go down the bore.

Also I modified the report above as I forgot one detail about my sizing process.

[sw]

Onecardchuck, ironically, I talked a while with Tom Post concerning dies for my 40 and 45s. He's very impressive. I've wondered, would preheating the bullets help in sizing? Might need to have a warm die also. Think this would help? Planning on using Parker 275 or 300g Match Hunters(if the diameter is appropriate).

[Deleted]

Great report and great shootin..

[rangeball]

Chuck, back when I played with your die, it took about 60# of force to get the 250gr barnes flat base .458 HP through the die, but when I annealed them by putting them on an electric stove top coil on high for 20 minutes then water quenched, they went through with only 30#. Shot better too.

If you have a way to anneal some, may be something to try.

Great shooting and glad to here it's all coming together for you. Go kill a big one

[onecardchuck]

Mike,
Good to hear from you. Annealing is on the list but before I go there I want to tweak the sizing a little more and see if I can repeat these results.

Thanks and good luck to you too this season.

Ohioguy thanks for the kind words.

[onecardchuck]

I did a little more bullet sizing in the garage last couple nights. Since the only other bullet I had was the Nosler CT 300 grain FB RN. I ran it through the exact same process I put the TSX's through mentioned in the original post.

What I found out is when running a bullet through multiple times irregardless of it being solid copper or a jacketed bullet they come out sized exactly the same and fit the bore identically. With this new finding in my next range session I will shoot the TSX FB and CT FB RN side by side using the exact same dye setting for 100 and 200 to help answer some questions.

After that Mike I promise I will then anneal some TSX FB and shoot them using the same sizing procedure if I can find a good annealing process before I go the range next I will shoot all three at the same time.

Hope this helps,

[edge]

Just curious on the multiple passes and thinking out loud.
What if you sized it for a slightly looser fit and then a very light knurl on part of the shank to add a bit of drag on loading?

I bet that my sabotless loading pressure, once the bullet gets started, is no more than a couple of pounds...but I might not trust a non duplex load for hunting!

edge.

[jray57]

I find that in my case I get nearly identical loading resistance by indexing the bullet to the FF die and then indexing the sized bullet to the bore the same each time. I get mostly single digit ES's without using a wad with bullets that go through the FF die only once. IMO it is not possible to get the bullet oriented exactly the same each time for multiple passes through the die. While this may seem to reduce incosistancies in loading resistance it has to increase inconsistancy as far as land\groove dimension on the sized bullet. I have used mostly 300 SSTs in my .443 and find that bullets that are sized once and then stored for weeks will load the same as ones just sized. Hey but if it works it works!

[onecardchuck]

edge you know half knurling a FF bullet was on my list to do but then I took it off my list after talking with cowhunter as me and him agreed he would try it and post results. I did PM him a while back but never heard back from him on how he made out. I will try him again and if I do not hear back I can add that to my things to try list. Thanks for the reminder.

jray57 with both of these bullets I have tried a single pass through the dye and my range reports are out there showing my results. It may be that the 300 SST's more easily form than the bullets I am using to a perfect bore size. It maybe your barrel is more forgiving and a better shooter than mine and does not require more exact sizing. I agree with you that these results were achieved marking the bullet and indexing the bullet to the same land every time and I did get consistent loading resistance each time.

[dannoboone]

Right now, those bullets are about as scarce as hen's teeth!! Did manage to
get my hands on a box of them. They look very similar to the 200gr .451 XPB
(S&W) that I got very good accuracy with last year. I, too, am wondering if
annealing will help with both sizing and accuracy. Probably won't get to it
until after 2d ML season (will use Luke's APB's this year), and when weather
cooperates.

[Dave W]

Annealing, if you get them hot enough, will make sizing much easier Danno.

[dannoboone]

Nov 23, 2013 18:47:40 GMT -5 Dave W said:

Annealing, if you get them hot enough, will make sizing much easier Danno.

Yessireee. They're sizing easier than the .458 APB's.

[rangeball]

Chuck, if you have an electric range top put the bullets on the coils, crank it to high, wait 20 min then drop them into a pan of water. Easy.

[onecardchuck]

It appears electric range tops are rare to find in the land of snow and ice and many power outages but I will keep looking.