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Post by rangeball on Apr 3, 2009 10:39:49 GMT -5
From Al's cut up thread and other pics I've seen of recovered bullets (looked like lead colored barnes), these look like they could be real winners at smokeless speeds. 2-3 times thicker plating than the rainiers/harvesters, but not so thick as other jacketed bullets, both bonded and non-bonded, perhaps a great balance between weight retention and obturation.
Their .452 300 gr bullet for the 454 casull has an advertised bc of .233, which I think is respectable. 250 is iirc .160, a bit lower but not much difference out to 200 yards I'm sure. Price is right too.
Why don't we see these bullets mentioned more?
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Post by rangeball on Apr 3, 2009 14:17:33 GMT -5
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Post by Al on Apr 4, 2009 2:24:55 GMT -5
They are on the list to try sabotless when I can find some, but those 40cals are going to get a work out in sabots pretty quick....................just not today.
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Post by chuck41 on Apr 4, 2009 8:12:46 GMT -5
I have a box of the .40 cals. Will be trying them sabotless on the next range trip along with my resized 41 Mag soft point bullets.
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 4, 2009 21:13:22 GMT -5
The plating on most Gold Dots that I have cut has a thickness of about .018. This is about the same thickness as the jackets on a Parker BE, Hornady .458 300gr and the Remington .458 300gr. But since it is plated it is basicly bonded so it should hold together better.
IIRC Doug (the one that started the board) used the 250gr with good results. The .458 300gr JHP is of similar construction (Uni-Cor) as the Gold Dot.
As far as the .233 BC of the .452 300gr at Savage speed, as Homey the clown would say, Homey don't think so!
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Post by chuck41 on Apr 4, 2009 22:50:35 GMT -5
. . . . . . . . . . . . . As far as the .233 BC of the .452 300gr at Savage speed, as Homey the clown would say, Homey don't think so! Homey must be some kind of a seer. With that big open nose the BC on those can't be any greater than an XTP. |
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Post by Al on Apr 5, 2009 4:10:27 GMT -5
maybe they figured the BC before the hollow point ;D
Rossman, your right on the plating thickness, think those 40's were .015 or .017 (notes are at work) , nice and even all the way around thou.
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Post by Dave W on Apr 5, 2009 8:05:29 GMT -5
as Homey the clown would say, Homey don't think so! That show had some great skits Rossman. I bet you would have liked to have Wanda "Rock your world". ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by rangeball on Apr 6, 2009 8:56:27 GMT -5
As far as the .233 BC of the .452 300gr at Savage speed, as Homey the clown would say, Homey don't think so! Please don't confuse me with facts... when I try some as they're speeding down range I plan to chant "I think it can I think it can..."  May be awhile though... they're apparently out of stock everywhere  |
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Post by rangeball on Apr 7, 2009 10:50:16 GMT -5
I had emailed speer and asked them about their gold dot and unicores at smokeless speeds. They answered that when pushed faster they tend to over-expand and over-penetrate, which prompted me to ask "When you say over-expand and over-penetrate, do you still expect the bullet to hold together? What would you say the likely outcome of a gold dot 250 grain at 2300 fps impacting the broadside shoulder bone of a whitetail deer at say 5-50 yards?" They replied "don't expect you'll see the bullet, expect it to pass through the animal and don't expect the deer to travel very far at all." Sounds good to me Should be a good 250gr option if I can ever find any in stock. |
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 7, 2009 14:17:48 GMT -5
Speer is the last of the big bullets makers to make a bullet with a plastic tip. Along with Sierra have yet to make a solid or a "green" bullet till last year Speer came out with the TNT Green (only three .224 bullets so far). The Trophy Bonded Bear Claws are interesting with it's solid copper shank. The Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid I was told is made by Woodliegh. The Gold Dot technology has expanded into the Fusion line which I was told has something to do with development of new "green" military ammo along with the technology from the TNT Green bullet. Being a ATK company you got to think military.
It would be neat to see a tipped Fusion or Bear Claw in a size we could use in the 10ML.
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Post by savedbyjc7 on Apr 7, 2009 14:44:55 GMT -5
i see federal has a fusion ml bulet/sabot out.
240gr
260gr
300gr.
the sabot is orange.
12.79@12 midway.
bullet is a hp
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Post by rangeball on Apr 7, 2009 15:55:46 GMT -5
In my original email to speer I had asked them to consider a tipped ML bullet based on the gold dot. They ignored it in their replies Rossman, any idea how thick the copper plating is on the fusion .45s? Is speer making these for federal, or licensing them the technology or something? I assume the fusions aren't available in bulk for reloading? |
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 7, 2009 22:57:52 GMT -5
I had a pack of the Fusion ML bullets given to me last season but my brother ran out and I gave him the pack. I'll see if he has a couple left and slice one. So far no centerfire Fusion bullets are available for reloading.
ATK is constantly streamlining operations and you may see only CCI primers for reloading in the future (the Federal primers are made in the same plant plus tons of other primers and initiators for defense use not too mention the largest primer manufacturer). Speer is becoming the bullet making arm and more and more of the bullets for Speer, Blaser and Federal ammo, besides those made by outside suppliers like Barnes, Woodliegh, Nosler and Seirra, comes from them or thru them.
Dealing with Speer is tough, the Gold Dot is their cash cow, and they are still the number one LE ammo supplier. It seems the old crew from the Blount days only takes orders from higher ups but I think the change is in. Their idea of ML bullets was roundballs. If you said the DoD wanted tipped Gold Dots they would have jumped. Luckily ATK has some marketing people and I think they see that the defense industry boom isn't going to last forever (war is good business) and they are getting set-up for the consumer side to at least keep the manufacturing base working till the next war.
Just a correction, the Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid is made by Nosler, not Woodliegh. Last years introduction of the Trophy Bonded Tip is the first for Speer/Federal.
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