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Post by jims on Mar 27, 2009 19:48:36 GMT -5
This is a photo of my .38 barreled Savage with a saboted 8mm load and a boattail 9.3mm sabotless bullet and the keyhole it shot at 100 yards. The keyholing occurred sabotless. It did that about every 5th round. There is a .45 SST to the left as a comparison.
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Post by Al on Mar 27, 2009 20:08:04 GMT -5
Jim, what did the sabots group like?
and how was the bullet for fit, sabotless?
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Post by jims on Mar 27, 2009 20:42:25 GMT -5
I actually got with my first group with sabots as I recall around 1.5 inches, it went down hill after that rapidly. The speed was around 3400 fps. The sabotless I never could get to shoot but had the wrong type of powder and definitely the improper amount. RB, edge, SW and a few others (sorry if I forgot who also gave me some good ideas) have suggested some better powders and loads. I will be trying again but am awaiting the Lee resizer so I do not have to chill the bullets to get the sabotless ones down the bore. I am in no hurry this time so it may take months or longer before I get hopefully where I would like to be, if not I can shoot my daughters Savage ML.
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Post by dougedwards on Mar 27, 2009 21:20:53 GMT -5
I forgot the rate of twist in your barrel Jim. Also what is the weight of the bullets that keyholed on you?
Doug
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Post by edge on Mar 27, 2009 21:25:25 GMT -5
Clearly the main reason for keyholing is insufficient bullet rotation!
That can be too little barrel twist, or not enough imparted to the bullet! A bullet that drills the sabot can keyhole! A sabotless bullet that is not knurled enough can keyhole! A bullet with the wrong powder can keyhole! A sabot that does not cleanly separate can tip the bullet and it may keyhole...but unlikely!
edge.
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Post by jims on Mar 27, 2009 22:02:55 GMT -5
The twist is 1 in 12. The bullets that keyholed the most were shot sabotless, the boattail 250 grain Noslers were the worst. The bullets were not knurled, I was trying to get away without it at first and I had enough trouble getting them down the bore, I chilled them just so I could get them in. I also had to clean after every shot or even then I could not get them down the bore, The recovered sabots were not driiled or damaged, maybe less than with the .50 ML. The wrong powder may have well been part of the issue, that was the biggest area of problem for me. I was never quite sure of the "right" powder and load. The .50 had a good base of powders etc. to look at, even the .45 and .40 have some suggested loads. I tried to much on my own and did not do well in that regard.
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Post by rbinar on Mar 28, 2009 2:22:51 GMT -5
The twist is 1 in 12. The bullets that keyholed the most were shot sabotless, the boattail 250 grain Noslers were the worst. The bullets were not knurled, I was trying to get away without it at first and I had enough trouble getting them down the bore, I chilled them just so I could get them in. I also had to clean after every shot or even then I could not get them down the bore, The recovered sabots were not driiled or damaged, maybe less than with the .50 ML. The wrong powder may have well been part of the issue, that was the biggest area of problem for me. I was never quite sure of the "right" powder and load. The .50 had a good base of powders etc. to look at, even the .45 and .40 have some suggested loads. I tried to much on my own and did not do well in that regard. Now you have it ready to shoot I'm sure we can give it at least a good try at shooting the way you'd like. Let's not bite off more than we can chew however. You say you get sabot loads to 3400fps? Well you have considerable room to play if that's the case. Would you be satisfied with 3300 or even 3200fps. If so I suggest you adjust you load down trying to find accuracy. You may be surprised it might only cost 50 to 100fps or less to turn a marginal load into a good one. One in 12 twist should be fast enough for about any bullet of this 375 caliber but I'd like to see you shoot a flat base. I know that may be too much to ask components don't grow on trees and an effort to shoot what you have may be needed. I suggest it because flat based bullets seem to be easier to get going than a boat tail. Some confidence in a particular load will be just the thing for you to have this thing ringed out soon. Don't worry about the loads. With some PMs and trials we can get a good mix and you can tune that thing for accuracy at the correct pressure. It may take a while but you'll be able to say you opened up a whole new caliber in smokeless shooting. If you can give some data it might help with analysis.
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Post by jims on Mar 28, 2009 6:53:23 GMT -5
I will appreciate the help, my episode with the gun has already shown me I am not as smart as I thought I was and I never thought I was very smart.
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Post by chuck41 on Mar 28, 2009 9:51:03 GMT -5
Wow! Perfect bullet profile shaped hole. That thing didn't just "keyhole" it tumbled. What was the range? Those sabots don't look like they are long enough to fully support that bullet, but if you got 1 1/2" groups with it they must not be doing too bad. Perhaps better choice of load will make a big improvement. We will be interested to hear how it works out.
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Post by mshm99 on Mar 28, 2009 10:53:20 GMT -5
You have my attention jims. Please keep us posted. mshm
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Post by jims on Mar 28, 2009 21:05:12 GMT -5
The keyhole was at 100 yards but I had a big piece of carboard up, I might have hit a deer but not where I was shooting and performance may not have been terminal. I will not shoot any bullet at game until it is shooting correctly, it will get there eventually I hope. The boattails seemed to keyhole the worst, problems both saboted and sabotless with the boattails it seems although this keyhole was sabotless.
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