Looking for light load for heavy bullet

[wilmsmeyer]

Screwbolts has given me a sample of his cast bullets. One is a 263 grain bullet resembling an XTP in form. The other is a 335 gr flat point that resembles the LBT style.

I plan on trying both of these bullets out soon and am looking for some "light load" info for the heavier bullet. I have N110, 5744 and 4759 and am hoping for something good with 4759 because I have a lot of it.

Also of consideration is the size of this bullet is right at .450. Seated in a black crush rib, it mic's at about .501. In the HPH12 it mic's at .504. In the red crush rib .506. Wondering if a cast (even a hardcast) would obturate better then a jacketed or solid copper bullet and therefore be OK with a looser then "normal" fit.

Any thoughts?

[tar12]

I think of the 3 powders listed I would go with the 5744.It has proven to be a very solid performer even at slower velocities.I have shot 300 grn bullets with the N110.It lets you know it is there for sure.It was very accurate though..No comment on the 4759 as I have not shot it.As far as fit,start pushing...

[screwbolts]

You don't need a light load with the my cast, We have shot them with both 4759 and 5744 up to 45 gr. out of the savages. I have been using up to 58 gr. of Reloader 7 and also the same with IMR4198. I also use a duplex of 6.5 5744 and 52 of R7

If you need a tighter fit with the LBTs just knurl them between to files to what ever diameter you would like.

This is a group I fired last Mon. My LBTHC in SBH sabot as cast. Shots 3 and 4 I realized I had changed my hold on the rifle, 1-3 were chronograph at the backstop 4-6 were with the crono at the bench. 103 yards between the chronograph placments readings. BC worked out to .180, adjusted to .178 by weather conditions, this is from Load from a disk program. This load was 6.5 of 5744 not 7.5 as the paper shows. ( LEE .5 CC dipper of 5744 )

These groups were fired from a gun that had been shot 7 times prior to this shooting since cleaning. No cleaning or patching of any kind was done, to shot these groups.



This is a load of 33 gr. of 4759. My LBT HC SBH as cast. Shots 1-3 were read at the bench, shots 4-6 were at the target, only got 1 reading because of to much shade I believe. BC worked out to be .197 adjusted to .195 after all condition data was entered. 33gr. 4759 is almost exactly what 105 gr of BH209 gets for speed. 105 gr. of BH209 reads 1778 FPS



This is a photo from my bench to the 103 yard back stop. 10 cu' freezer full of sand, my 150 yard backstop freezer is behind it but a downed tree has tipped it off its mount so it isn't visible. I need to remove the tree and reset the freezer.

[screwbolts]

If you have the latest "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook" third edition, I have found that all the Data for the 45/70 's to be very close in Vel. as to what I show for my 50 cal gun w/ sabot. This manual lists bullet wghts. from 293 gr up to 460. It has 3 (three) sections for loads for the 45/70, 58.5 gr. of R7 is listed as 2132 FPS with a 322 gr bullet and 27000 CUP. this load is from the 1886 Win/1895 marlin section. this is the med. pressure section. as you can see my gun reads within 30 FPS. the reason I am using a booster w/ R7 is there is no unburnt powder in the bore with the little booster. The booster didn't change the FPS/ :-)

This Lyman Handbook lists loads as low as 19 gr. of 4759 for the 45/70 with the 322 and 366 gr bulets.

Ken

[wilmsmeyer]

Thanks for the replys. I actually want a light load. As for full speed loads, I will try them too and have a bunch of recipes in that dept.

This summer I have vowed to shoot the Savages a lot....with lighter loads....on woodchucks and targets. 2 reasons: 1) My girlfriend will be shooting with me and 2) woodchucks under 150 or so yds are the game. Even these "light" loads are on par with a .454 Casull. Penetration should be great for deer or a moose. My girlfriend could hunt with this gun loaded very light....for woodchucks....then deer...same load.

Tar12 is right regarding "pushing"...My question is wondering if a looser fit will not be as problematic using a cast bullet. The way to find out is for me to try them all. Just wondering if any one knew from experience.

Thanks.

[screwbolts]

I have shot both 4759 and 5744 down to 22 grains, at that load I get 1 hole groups at 25 yards. with either of my casts or even a GHSabot and a .430 Hornady 240Gr swaged. out of my 26" barrel 28.5 of 4759 equals the speed of 80 gr. of BH209.

Off topic: I once shot a beefer in the for head with a 303 Smelly, load was 17 gr 4759 220 gr. Lyman 311284. I asked our butcher to save the bullet if he found it and to make note of where it was. When I picked up the meet he was all smiles. The bullet was recovered up against the Rt shoulder blade spline , the nose was bent matching the bone. it had penitrated over 39" of meat and bone, it came out of the 2nd verdibray in the neck and then traveled to the shoulder blade. this was a 1500 FPs load. needless to say the beefers feet hit its chest before Gravity forced it to earth.

Both SR 4759 and XMR 5744 were designed for reduced loads in rifles and XMR5744 also has links to pistol loads.

Have fun!!!!!!!

Ken

[screwbolts]

Mar 21, 2009 7:10:53 GMT -5 wilmsmeyer said:

Thanks for the replys. I actually want a light load. As for full speed loads, I will try them too and have a bunch of recipes in that dept.

This summer I have vowed to shoot the Savages a lot....with lighter loads....on woodchucks and targets. 2 reasons: 1) My girlfriend will be shooting with me and 2) woodchucks under 150 or so yds are the game. Even these "light" loads are on par with a .454 Casull. Penetration should be great for deer or a moose. My girlfriend could hunt with this gun loaded very light....for woodchucks....then deer...same load.

Tar12 is right regarding "pushing"...My question is wondering if a looser fit will not be as problematic using a cast bullet. The way to find out is for me to try them all. Just wondering if any one knew from experience.

Thanks.

Because of the very long bearing surface of the LBT hard cast you will find that the load pressure will still be adequate to light anything you choose to push them with. If it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling to have them tighter then just lightly knurl them with a pair of files. I use the Short Black harvester with both, the MMP will be a little tighter, and the Knight short black will be the tightest.

2 files will make any bullet fit tight, copper, brass, lead, or condom rapped.

I have sized the XTP clones @ .452 They shot very well in all the cannons we have tried them in.

I posted some 200 yard groups a while back.

[savedbyjc7]

good post, being a cast bullet user in my milsurps i have toyed with the idea of cast bully's in the ml. i like the looks of lyman#457122. it is a hollow point @ 330 grains. 5744 i think would be the likely powder. cast out of straight wheel weights, should be a thumper on deer.

[petev]

For what it's worth I like shooting 37.2 gr. AA5744 with a 300 gr. Hornaday out of my Savage, and find it groups fine at 75 yds.

[wilmsmeyer]

One thing that I've observed in the past few weeks (Well over 100 shots) is that 5744 is providing very good groups at all light charge weights. 4759 has been erratic. Charge weights for both have been 25-30 grains and seated very firmly.

By erratic, I mean 3-4 inch groups instead of 1-2 inch groups.

Last night I shot some of screwbolts 333 gr bullets with 30 gr 5744. Shot a 2 inch group. POI was 5 inches above bull @ 100 yds. There was an old tire rim set up at 150 and I rang it 2 times in a row with a dead on hold. Should have seen the massive dents in that rim. Impact was probably 1200...just guessing.

[tar12]

Wilms,
I have shot about 8 lbs of 5744.One thing i learned about this is it will always go bang.And it stays consistant velocity wise over a much broader range than anything else I have shot.

[savedbyjc7]

Mar 23, 2009 5:15:20 GMT -5 tar12 said:

Wilms,
I have shot about 8 lbs of 5744.One thing i learned about this is it will always go bang.And it stays consistant velocity wise over a much broader range than anything else I have shot.

i agree 100%. i have shot 6 deer using this powder. it works great!