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Post by Harley on Mar 23, 2009 21:29:09 GMT -5
I got it, RB; for some reason I thought you intended to shoot those bullets "as is".
Harley
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Post by rbinar on Mar 23, 2009 21:38:06 GMT -5
I got it, RB; for some reason I thought you intended to shoot those bullets "as is". Harley I may depends on the fit. I think the TMZ is tight enough to try. I'm sort of wondering why you ask because I start all the sabot-less loads I've ever shot by hand. I don't even own a short starter.
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Post by Dave W on Mar 23, 2009 21:40:58 GMT -5
RB, I sized a hundred SST/SW's last night, if you need some for testing I can send some your way. They are approx. .4505 at the ogive and .4501 at the base.
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Post by Harley on Mar 23, 2009 21:43:49 GMT -5
The reason I asked is because I knurl my bullets until they can't be started by hand. I depend on the short starter to force the initial entry. My thinking is that doing it this way makes it most likely that all the bullets have the same deep contact with the riflling once they are forced in. I'm probably explaining it poorly, but maybe you can think of it as using the rifle muzzle as a "finishing die".
Harley
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Post by rexxer on Mar 23, 2009 21:49:22 GMT -5
Harley
Knurled my first bullets today and it works pretty slick. Now to come up with the right fit.
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Post by jims on Mar 23, 2009 21:49:34 GMT -5
This is an interesting topic to me. I have a Lee die coming, in following the spring back results I may need a smaller die. I can try mine when it arrives, if too big I can order another or have one made here. It sounds like one has to experiment a bit until it is "just right" or close enough that knurling can get you there. The initial cost of my Savage was not bad, it is that " continual " upkeep/upgrades that cost the money but that is half the fun of it. Always trying to make it "better."
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Post by rbinar on Mar 23, 2009 21:54:44 GMT -5
RB, I sized a hundred SST/SW's last night, if you need some for testing I can send some your way. They are approx. .4505 at the ogive and .4501 at the base. Dave thanks maybe we can swing a trade. Send me some sized and I'll replace them with un-sized slugs.
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Post by Dave W on Mar 23, 2009 22:04:14 GMT -5
RB, I sized a hundred SST/SW's last night, if you need some for testing I can send some your way. They are approx. .4505 at the ogive and .4501 at the base. Dave thanks maybe we can swing a trade. Send me some sized and I'll replace them with un-sized slugs. RB, I sent you a PM, please verify I still have the correct address. How many bullets do you want also?
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Post by rexxer on Mar 23, 2009 22:06:14 GMT -5
Since I made 4 dies in the last few days maybe I should run some different bullets thru them and compare spring back.
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Post by Harley on Mar 23, 2009 22:26:08 GMT -5
Here's a question for you: How quick does spring-back occur, how much does a bullet recover, and at what point is it finished?
I'm sure the answer depends, at least in part, on what bullet you are re-sizing. I think, also, that spring-back (recovery) takes place over a longer period of time than you'd first guess.
The answer has real-world implications: Seating effort and consequent MV, group size and POI might vary significantly if, say, you loaded the day after you resized bullets, or if you loaded a week or so later.
Harley
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Post by Al on Mar 24, 2009 2:29:48 GMT -5
Here's a question for you: How quick does spring-back occur, how much does a bullet recover, and at what point is it finished? I'm sure the answer depends, at least in part, on what bullet you are re-sizing. I think, also, that spring-back (recovery) takes place over a longer period of time than you'd first guess. The answer has real-world implications: Seating effort and consequent MV, group size and POI might vary significantly if, say, you loaded the day after you resized bullets, or if you loaded a week or so later. Harley On the 300gr XTP mags I did Saturday morning, spring back was .0008 right out of the .4506 die, and are still the same size as of 5 minutes ago. I'll have a .449 die done in a couple of days, and will try a couple again to see what difference that one makes.
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Post by Al on Mar 24, 2009 18:30:32 GMT -5
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Post by smokeeter on Mar 24, 2009 19:00:46 GMT -5
for some reason I have a feeling I've seen this before.
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Post by rbinar on Mar 24, 2009 19:19:42 GMT -5
Dave thanks maybe we can swing a trade. Send me some sized and I'll replace them with un-sized slugs. RB, I sent you a PM, please verify I still have the correct address. How many bullets do you want also? PM sent.
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Post by bigmoose on Mar 25, 2009 7:32:25 GMT -5
I must be doing something wrong, I gave up on trying to re-size jacketed .452 bullets to 450.5, spring back was my problem. When re-sizing Barnes 290gr. TMZ, I would find a couple a bullets in each pack, that won't re-size, I'm saying, I had some bullets that I would run thru the die, six times and not get it to size. Since RB, Paul and Edge don't have that problem, It has to be me. But, as long as its not arms and legs, I can live with it.
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Post by Dave W on Mar 25, 2009 18:17:34 GMT -5
RB, I sent you a PM, please verify I still have the correct address. How many bullets do you want also? PM sent. PM returned RB.
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Post by rexxer on Mar 26, 2009 8:10:37 GMT -5
I have some Barnes xpb bullets I going to push through my dies.The Bullet start out from top to bottom..4502-.4502-.4508
I pushed one through the .4495 die----.450
I pushed one through the .449 die---.4494
I pushed one through the .448 die---.4483
The thing I notice was less spring back and bullet more concentric from top to bottom. (Barnes over Parkers)
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Post by Harley on Mar 26, 2009 8:14:49 GMT -5
Re: Rexxer's Reply #46. I'm getting the same kind of result, also. I just can't seem to understand how a bullet emerges from a sizing die larger than the inside diameter of that die. Are we talking about "instantaneous" recovery, almost as if the bullet were made of rubber?
Harley
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sr71
Spike
Posts: 38
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Post by sr71 on Mar 26, 2009 8:20:11 GMT -5
Awesome thread folks. Question, would anyone be willing to run a 275 Parker Extreme thru a .449 die, measure the results and post the measurements from top to bottom? It would be greatly appreciated!
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Post by rexxer on Mar 26, 2009 9:50:18 GMT -5
sr71- I ran a 275 Parker through a.449 die on page one--reply 21!. Harley- yes,I think it springs back instantly--I think the softer the metal the less springback. I would also think the jacketed bullets will be the worst for the spring back.
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Post by Al on Mar 26, 2009 10:06:18 GMT -5
even cast bullets will spring back, and the harder they are, the more spring they have.
I pushed a 300gr .458 Hornady thru my .4506 die this morning, all in 1 pass, it came out at .4513 which really suprside me.
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Post by bigmoose on Mar 26, 2009 11:25:38 GMT -5
Harley,
I don't use a short starter, but it thats a lot of push, to seat my knurled TMZ's, I have found a very tight fit leads to tight groups, as always I speak only about my rifle, I am not an expert, so I can't give advise, just a someone that likes to shoot and hunt.
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Post by Harley on Mar 26, 2009 17:30:32 GMT -5
Yesterday I resized 24 Parker 275's. I carefully measured each diameter and weighed each bullet. The weights were all within 1.1 gns. The diameters varied as much as .0004" among the 24 bullets. I then set them aside for 24 hours and re-measured the diameters (all measurements at the ogive). I found that, in addition to the "instantaneous" recovery (spring-back) after first resizing them, most of the bullets had recovered even more over the 24 hours; they gained from .0000" - .0004".
(The most interesting finding, for me, was that the smaller the initial diameter the greater the subsequent recovery over 24 hours.)
This seems particularly important to the sabotless/knurling shooter. Say that you resize then immediately knurl to whatever you think the bullet should be. Unless you shoot all the resized bullets the same day they are going to load tighter after that first day, or maybe not load at all, or maybe just change the MV and the POI.
So, I've decided to try resizing one day, then waiting 24 hours before knurling. I don't know if this is good reasoning or not, but will test it the next time out.
I'm only making this claim for 275 gn Parker BE's. I think each bullet's composition will determine the recovery characteristics for that bullet.
Harley
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Post by bigmoose on Mar 26, 2009 18:28:17 GMT -5
Harley, Good info, As soon as I read it, I mic'ed 30 TMZ's that I resized abd knurled months ago, I am pleased to report, all copper bullets hold their size, all mic'ed .450.5 right on the money
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Post by smokeless77 on Mar 26, 2009 18:43:12 GMT -5
Harley,I was wondering, the out of round parkers, if you size them to say, 450 to make them round do you think when they spring back they will be out of round again.
Thanks John
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Post by Harley on Mar 26, 2009 19:59:47 GMT -5
Ha! John, that's a clever question. I don't know the answer. I do size them first to .450 before using the .448 die. I don't think I care whether they are out of round or not by the time I finish knurling them.
Harley
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sr71
Spike
Posts: 38
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Post by sr71 on Mar 26, 2009 20:14:03 GMT -5
rexxer,
I'm not sure how I missed that post. Thanks!
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Post by smokeless77 on Mar 26, 2009 20:24:39 GMT -5
Harley, I shoot them right out of the box, but i was just curious cuz i hear alot of diffrent ways of sizeing them,and the spring back. But I'am sure sombody on this site will find the answer.
John
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Post by rexxer on Mar 26, 2009 20:30:32 GMT -5
sr71 - no problem! Harley- are you using a mike or vernier? I have not found the bullets to change in diameter over time. I could see where it would be easy to think they have changed with the Parkers because of being out or round. I will keep an eye out on the ones I have already sized. The Barnes bullets seem to come out truer than the Parkers.
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Post by Harley on Mar 26, 2009 23:33:04 GMT -5
Rex, I'm using a vernier micrometer. You may be right that I got false readings because of the out of roundness. I didn't take multiple readings from each bullet.
Harley
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