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Post by Richard on Mar 26, 2011 15:07:55 GMT -5
As blurry as the pictures are, the skirts appear to be in good condition. Is it possible the load was just not a good one? So what did the groups look like? I get them with ragity edges all the time and the groups are still good  Richard |
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Post by Savage Shooter on Mar 26, 2011 15:45:38 GMT -5
As blurry as the pictures are, the skirts appear to be in good condition. Is it possible the load was just not a good one? So what did the groups look like? I get them with ragity edges all the time and the groups are still good Richard Nothing wrong with the skirt at all, check out the petal tho. Sorry for the poor pics, yes the skirt/cup is in good condition. Where the dark (smoked) spot is showing about midway of the petal is a crushed flat spot that is paper thin. This spot is about 3/16" in length full width of petal and a bit below where the ogive is on the bullet. I am of the opinion that it crushed against the barrel at this location or was burnt by gas escape, but if it was gas it is not smoked or burnt at all below this spot. I found 3-4 more of these once I started looking for them. Not sure of the cause but the load I was shooting at the time was the N120/H4198 duplex of differ variations from 10/55 to 13/53. I would have 2-4 hits in a less than 2" group at 200 and a 3 to 4 inch flyer from time to time and the flyer was random, unexpected and unpredictable for direction. Average speeds of 2900fps with these combos and show promise for accuracy and then let you down. |
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Post by Richard on Mar 26, 2011 16:12:03 GMT -5
I only shot the one duplex last week (15/53) and it did not want to shoot? Actually when I mixed the combination, it shot slightly better and a bit faster? In the past when I have mixed duplex loads (usually N-110 with either H-322 or N-130) my velocity drops by 100 fps (with say.... a 2900 fps load).
Do me a favor...............I have been shooting this triplex load for the past few weeks and it has consistently performed well for me.
10/23/34.........N-110/N-120/H-322. I have shot it with the 200 XTP, Noslers and SST's.....probley even the Barnes 195's. along with the smooth blue Harvesters. You should be right around 2800 fps. Just see how it does for you? I have tried doing some tweaking with the amounts of all three powders and keep coming back the the above load. I just finished bedding Billy Zink's new PN Savage and am going to shoot it this week........Yes, with the triplex. ;D I have shot this load enough to know it is predictable and accurate. PT's have also corroborated my results.
(I used to get those blurry pic's also until I upgraded to a little better point and shoot that has the "macro" feature. Now close ups are a cinch)
Richard
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Post by ET on Mar 26, 2011 16:24:53 GMT -5
Savage Shooter
If you feel that the petal degradation is not a result of escaping hot gases then would a suspect be bore friction from the higher velocity acceleration?
Here I have to wonder how much the plastic petals are forced to compress between bore and bullet from the higher velocity acceleration creating a higher level of heat to the plastic from resulting friction?
Ed
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Post by jims on Mar 26, 2011 16:33:30 GMT -5
Even with special formulations of the plastic it amazes me how well the sabots hold up to the pressure, heat, fire, friction and speed and acceleration. I realize some of those are duplications but they are pretty tough little critters and work decently.
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Post by tar12 on Mar 26, 2011 16:45:55 GMT -5
Even with special formulations of the plastic it amazes me how well the sabots hold up to the pressure, heat, fire, friction and speed and acceleration. I realize some of those are duplications but they are pretty tough little critters and work decently. It is indeed amazing as to what they can handle! |
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Post by deadon on Mar 26, 2011 17:24:48 GMT -5
You might want to get some good plastic cleaner before your next outing  Rusty |
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Post by youp50 on Mar 26, 2011 18:35:45 GMT -5
Per the late RBinAR, A good bronze brush will take out all the sabot plastic left in a barrel. My experience confirms his observation.
It is not uncommon for sabots to lose a petal or two in my 50. BCRs 458 300 grain bullets and a duplex load. Accuracy does not seem to suffer.
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Post by hunter on Mar 26, 2011 19:14:23 GMT -5
Although petals are commonly lost, they are usually still intact. These petals in the picture above is really stretched out, more than I have ever seen. But I usually shoot 58-60 gr. 4198 so I am at much lower pressure than Savage shooters load.
Is the stretched petals always on one side? The reason I ask is two petals on each sabot look almost normal.
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Post by Savage Shooter on Mar 26, 2011 19:36:22 GMT -5
Although petals are commonly lost, they are usually still intact. These petals in the picture above is really stretched out, more than I have ever seen. But I usually shoot 58-60 gr. 4198 so I am at much lower pressure than Savage shooters load. Is the stretched petals always on one side? The reason I ask is two petals on each sabot look almost normal. I noticed on the 4-5 I picked up I that showed this always had 2 side by side like this and the other 2 looked fine. |
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Post by Savage Shooter on Mar 26, 2011 19:37:58 GMT -5
I only shot the one duplex last week (15/53) and it did not want to shoot? Actually when I mixed the combination, it shot slightly better and a bit faster? In the past when I have mixed duplex loads (usually N-110 with either H-322 or N-130) my velocity drops by 100 fps (with say.... a 2900 fps load). Do me a favor...............I have been shooting this triplex load for the past few weeks and it has consistently performed well for me. 10/23/34.........N-110/N-120/H-322. I have shot it with the 200 XTP, Noslers and SST's.....probley even the Barnes 195's. along with the smooth blue Harvesters. You should be right around 2800 fps. Just see how it does for you? I have tried doing some tweaking with the amounts of all three powders and keep coming back the the above load. I just finished bedding Billy Zink's new PN Savage and am going to shoot it this week........Yes, with the triplex. ;D I have shot this load enough to know it is predictable and accurate. PT's have also corroborated my results. (I used to get those blurry pic's also until I upgraded to a little better point and shoot that has the "macro" feature. Now close ups are a cinch) Richard I will shoot it next week and see what it acts like in my gun. I will post results. |
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Post by pposey on Mar 30, 2011 10:37:12 GMT -5
In my Encore 45 conversion I was getting thin stretched looking sabot pedals until I started knurling every bullet, much better now, also tightened up groups and eliminated most fliers
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Post by DHinMN on Mar 30, 2011 11:29:33 GMT -5
What brand of sabot is it? I have experienced streaching a petal when starting the sabot and bullet. The sabot was not one of the higher quality sabots though. To avoid anything like that happening I use a short starter with alignment device so you are pushing it down perfectly stright. I do believe there is such a thing as too tight a fit. You shouldn't have to resort too extreme measures to seat the bullet. You want it tight but don't get carried away. Personally use Harvester sabots but I know there are others probably just as good
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Post by pposey on Mar 30, 2011 12:08:41 GMT -5
Mine was the baby Blue Harv. They were pretty easy to load unknurled so I don't think that was the problem,,, probably to loose was my problem. They tightened up nice with the knurling and offer a good firm load
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Post by Savage Shooter on Mar 30, 2011 13:47:33 GMT -5
The ones photo'd above are the Harvestor Blue also.
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Post by rangeball on Mar 30, 2011 14:26:43 GMT -5
I'm having a hard time imagining the petals stretching upon exit, would seem elongation would come more from tight loading?
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Post by Savage Shooter on Mar 30, 2011 14:30:11 GMT -5
I'm having a hard time imagining the petals stretching upon exit, would seem elongation would come more from tight loading? IMO it is ocurring inside the barrel when petal soften due to pressure, heat etc. and allows the bullet to lean or "tip" a bit inside the barrel. I always see it on 2 petals at a time side by side. I don't think they are "stretching" I think they are getting mashed against the side of the barrel, getting mashed. |
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Post by pposey on Mar 30, 2011 19:52:47 GMT -5
Savage Shooter,,
have you lightly knurled any bullets and tried sure made the stretched petals go away for me
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Post by Savage Shooter on Mar 30, 2011 21:23:06 GMT -5
Savage Shooter,, have you lightly knurled any bullets and tried sure made the stretched petals go away for me No, or I should say not yet, but I am going to see! |
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Post by pposey on Mar 31, 2011 5:39:09 GMT -5
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Rusty
