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Post by tar12 on Sept 7, 2011 8:49:01 GMT -5
Has anyone here used Lil-Gun in a .44 Rem mag loading? I have seen several recipes on line generating 1900-2000 fps in a 6 in test barrel. The reason this piqued my interest is that I should gain approx. 150 fps in a 22 in rifle barrel(H&R)....what say you?
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Post by Rifleman on Sept 7, 2011 11:58:36 GMT -5
1900 fps in a 6 in barrel would be flying fast for even a 180 gr bullet Rick. Most full charge loads of H110 or W296 ( same powder) will be runnin right at 1600 fps with a 180 from a 7.5 in revolver. I have no doubt 1800 fps can be done, as I have done it with surplus H108, but that was with a 13 % overcharge. I was told it was same same as H110 and load data was interchangeable. I loaded to the same charge weight as the H110 and chronied 1800 fps from a 6.5 in barreled SW. I showed no other pressure signs other then the high chrono reading. I did more research and then learned H108 surplus was to be reduced by 13%- OOPS!. When I reduced the 13%, then speed dropped down to 1600 fps. Helpful info ? I don't know, I have never used the lil gun but I find it hard to believe one could get that much speed without excess pressure. But maybe it is true, I just would recommend you take it with a grain of salt and proceed with caution.
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Post by tar12 on Sept 7, 2011 16:10:40 GMT -5
Thats why I asked as I thought that was a little fast for that short of a test barrel. I will be hitting you up for some more info as I am going to load for this .44.Thanks for the insight Dwight.
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Post by jims on Sept 7, 2011 17:13:31 GMT -5
Rick: I wish I would have known you wanted some LilGun. I tried it in the ML and did not like it and ended up giving it away. I think it went into a 22 hornet. Good shooting.
Get all the shooting in with your kids while you can. They have a tendency to grow up and graduate and move away and the hunting time thereafter can be limited. I know from experience.
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Post by tar12 on Sept 7, 2011 22:36:09 GMT -5
Rick: I wish I would have known you wanted some LilGun. I tried it in the ML and did not like it and ended up giving it away. I think it went into a 22 hornet. Good shooting. Get all the shooting in with your kids while you can. They have a tendency to grow up and graduate and move away and the hunting time thereafter can be limited. I know from experience. I know buddy. I am dreading it. Did you get that loft built yet that new barn? I am going to need a place to stay! ;D |
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Post by rjhans53 on Sept 8, 2011 4:47:30 GMT -5
Tar,
My KP1 (yep I know different critter) the lands are way out there, even past where they would be on a 445 super mag if I was betting I think a 445 super would chamber, I just don't want to spend the money on 50 and then not have them work. I seat the bullet WAY out there, overall length is around 1.9" on a 265. The crono was down (dead battery) so I didn't get any info on speed, I just wasn't impressed with the group, trying 4198 this weekend, just need to remember to get some more batteries. I'm trying to get up to 1800-1850.
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Post by mountainam on Sept 8, 2011 6:11:25 GMT -5
We use it extensively in a .454 Casul and .256Win Mag. The reason I use it in the casul is that it generates a lot less pressure (22,000psi) and I only lose about 40-50fps when compared to Win 296 or H-110. I'll take less wear and tear over velocity always. In the .44mag however it doesn't seem to lower it's pressure when compared to the popularly used powders. BUT, That could change substantially when using it in a rifle. Use your choronograph and edge it up slowly. It should be a great powder in you rifle.
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Post by tar12 on Sept 8, 2011 22:45:11 GMT -5
Here are a couple loads I found surfing today on Handloads.com
I think that 1800-1900 fps is doable safely out of the Marlin barrlled H&R .44 Rem mag as these loads were shot out of a 6.5 and 7.5 in pistol barrel. The rifle barrel should gain me 100-150 fps. maybe a tad more..
200 grn bullet-(25.7-28.5 grn)H110-1,806 fps-CUP-37,800
200 grn bullet(26.6-29.5 grn)LIL'GUN-1,794fps-CUP-36,200
Mountainman everything I researched today regarding H110 and LIL'GUN confirmed your observations. I am simply wanting to take advantage of some of the tougher pistol bullets as they should really shine in the 1800-1900 fps range. I am currently shooting Hornadys 225 FTX offering..while it is extremely accurate and several deer have fallen to it..I had a experience where "Q" was the shooter and he shot a rather small doe slighly quartering to him. The bullet impacted the chest area where the shoulder meets the body. I had binos trained on him as I watched the doe enter the field. She dropped at the report and then went to bawling and thrashing around and then jumped up hauled it for about 50 yds down into the creek bottom. A finishing shot was necessary. Upon examination the shoulder was rendered useless but the FTX had come unglued upon impact and did not stay the course. Me no like. It will not happen again...hence the search.
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Post by Rifleman on Sept 9, 2011 5:00:51 GMT -5
Rick I use the Winchester Q loads. 240 gr Jacketed soft point. It does not come unglued. We have probably busted 15 deer or more between all of us with this load. It registers mid 1900's in the Marlin rifle over the chrony. Shoots OK to about 150. From our previous discussions I think the FTX might be more accurate, but the 240 WW load busts them up more like a BO. As far as loading for the 44 mag I would stick with H110 or N110. I can see no difference between the 2 in the 44 mag loads. Of course the H110 is cheaper then the VV. I always liked the 180 gr Rem JSP in the 44 in the revolver at 1600 fps. But this dude will clock well over 2K from the rifles, and I don't trust that bullet to hold up at that speed. I have had some jacket separation on occasion at 1600 and just figured it would not hold up going much faster.
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Post by tar12 on Sept 9, 2011 6:23:31 GMT -5
Well Dwight I will pick up some more of the Winchesters. I had a box of them and we shot them up at the range and I did not run them over the chrony. I did not think that they would put up those numbers.
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Post by rjhans53 on Sept 11, 2011 13:57:51 GMT -5
Ok wasn't impressed with 4198 at all. So I did a quick search on 445 super, came up with 29.5 of 4227 and headed back to the range. Like I said the 265 bullets are way out there and probably only seat in the brass about 1/4-3/16 of an inch so using the supermag load data should of and did work as the powder area is about the same. Using mag cci pistol primers, clocked at 1800 and group was around 1" -1 1/4 @ 50. This was with the 265 ftx and the hornady flat point. Side note no a 445 won't chamber but it will come next weekend the reamer is rented and headed this way.
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Post by tar12 on Sept 11, 2011 22:19:53 GMT -5
Ok wasn't impressed with 4198 at all. So I did a quick search on 445 super, came up with 29.5 of 4227 and headed back to the range. Like I said the 265 bullets are way out there and probably only seat in the brass about 1/4-3/16 of an inch so using the supermag load data should of and did work as the powder area is about the same. Using mag cci pistol primers, clocked at 1800 and group was around 1" -1 1/4 @ 50. This was with the 265 ftx and the hornady flat point. Side note no a 445 won't chamber but it will come next weekend the reamer is rented and headed this way. How long of a barrel are shooting this out of? Just curious... |
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Post by rjhans53 on Sept 12, 2011 4:51:04 GMT -5
the kp1 has a 24" tube, I thought maybe it was chambered long enough for a 445 super but it's not, that will be corrected end of the week
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Post by thelefthand on Sept 18, 2011 21:23:07 GMT -5
I'm not familiar with Lil-gun, but 1900 fps IS doable out of a carbine. I would NOT shoot a load that generated 1800fps or more out of a revolver. The cylinder gap on a revolver looses a LOT of the chamber pressure, and causes a drastic decrease in the velocity of the projectile. I've never done it, but I've heard that a 6" barrel on a revolver is about as fast as you're going to get. Any extra length just adds resistance to the projectile as the rifling continues to rub against it.
Now out of a Contender, Encore, or Carbine, a normal "hot" revolver load will generate in excess of 1800 fps. My dad and I both get that out of our Contender barrels. We are both shooting 24.0gr of H110 and a 240gr XTP. His is a 14" Thompson barrel, and mine is a 10" Virgin Valley barrel. That would seem to indicate that at 10" the powder has put as much energy into the bullet as it's ever going to. Out of a carbine, I would be tempted to try to use something a little slower than H110 so that I could get more use out of the longer barrel.
Just a thought,
Mark
P.S. Those loads kick like a mule out of our contenders.
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Post by tar12 on Sept 19, 2011 17:38:13 GMT -5
Mark what slower powders did you have in mind?
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Post by Rifleman on Sept 20, 2011 15:24:26 GMT -5
H322, N120
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