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Post by rangeball on Aug 26, 2011 15:05:32 GMT -5
A couple seasons ago a buddy and I took a chance on the wildgame inovations halo laser rangefinder the Sportsmans Guide was selling for $90. Ate batteries even when off, like totally dead in two days. Had to pull batteries when not using it, PIA. Sent them back to WGI after the season and they replaced them with new units. Last fall batteries would last, but mine was very dim to view through and wouldn't range much past 150 yards. Buddy's display starting going out towards the end of this year.
Taking advantage of Sportsmans guide liberal return policy, he's trading his for a bresser for about the same cost (rep told him it's what he had and seemed to work ok up to 200 yards), I'm getting a refund and had my eye on the redfield 550, until today.
Hit a farm and home store when out of town this morning that has a nice outdoors section, and they had a black and camo version from Redfield in the case. Pulled the black, no consistency on getting readings, straight on a 4'x4' metal sign hanging on the back wall of the store (maybe 75 yards), no reading. Guy tried, nothing. He pulled out the camo one, same problem, no reading on the sign and intermittent readings at closer ranges. I was also disappointed in the lack of clarity in the lense.
So, under $200, whats the best deal going on a laser range finder that offers at least 6X power, easy to use display/targeting and has a good clear view?
Rossman?
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Post by rossman40 on Aug 26, 2011 23:40:12 GMT -5
Like all the other sports optics you pretty much get what you pay for. Some are just a bit better or at least you get your monies worth and not paying for a brand name or getting totally ripped off. What is really bad the laser side comes down to two companies, Laser Technologies here in the states and Vectronics in Switzerland (orginally owned by Leica). Do not let the optics side fool you, nobody makes their own Laser Range Finder (LRF) (Leica was about the last). Leupold, Bushnell, Nikon, Redfield, Simmons basicly comes off lines in Asia and Leica, Zeiss and Swarovski at one time came off a line in Switzerland but I have been told the lower end is now coming from Asia (I didn't want to upset anyone by saying China). Basiclly the customer specs the optics and case design for his model. Then of course there are the "el cheapo" knock offs that are very low priced.
Prices are down from what they were a few years ago. You can get a pretty powerful laser for half the price they were 5 years ago. Personally I like the Bushnells, good price and twice the warranty of Leupold (2 year over one year). The Army chose the Elite 1500 as its rangefinder for the snipers. Your looking at maybe less than $300 for a Scout 1000 (comprable models in Nikon or Leupold are around $350). If you want to go cheap, the Redfield 550 looks interesting at $170 but the buy would be a
Bushnell Yardage Pro Sport 850 for about the same price.
What might have screwed you up in the store with the Redfield was the lighting. Flourescents and some of the HID lighting screws with the laser, not so much the laser it's self but the receiving side.
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Post by Rifleman on Aug 27, 2011 4:24:14 GMT -5
I agree with Rossman, I had a Leica Geovid which was top of the line, but it was huge and bulky as it was also a bino. Older tech and good to 1000 yds or more on hard targets. But tech has caught up and I bought a bushnell for about 350 that while as not as good as the Leica is tiny in comparison and good enough for what I do. Still waiting on a small laser with great optics that will actually range to 1500 yd on small soft targets but technology and price have not yet come together to make one affordable and available. Pesky govt regulations dont help either.
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Post by rossman40 on Aug 27, 2011 10:12:58 GMT -5
I do not think you can get much over 1600 yards (hard target) with a "eye-safe" laser. I used lasers in the Army and the small one (AN/GVS-5) was good to 10,000 meters but there was times at Ft Sill the dust would be kicked up enough it was only good to about 3000. The big one was the G/VLLD which was a designator and could put your eyes out at 50 miles. We had to watch for even a blade of grass close to the unit that could reflect the laser back at us.
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Post by Rifleman on Aug 28, 2011 4:03:14 GMT -5
LOL I get a kick out of thinking using a laser designator on a hunting trip, those things are huge!
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Post by rossman40 on Aug 28, 2011 15:59:48 GMT -5
Just light him up and call in a A-10 to blast him. I always wanted to do that at Atterbury.
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Post by Rifleman on Aug 29, 2011 5:30:20 GMT -5
Deer hunting with an A-10, I like that in a creepy sort of way, LOL!!
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Post by rossman40 on Aug 29, 2011 9:12:54 GMT -5
With the A-10 if it had it's Pave Penny pod on  As soon as we would designate the target it would show a pipper on the pilots HUD and all he had to do was put the crosshairs on it. It gave us the ability to look at a group of say tanks and pick out the command veichle (just look for the number of antennas) and take it out first. Of course he could just que up a Maverick, Hellfire or Laser Guided Bomb (LGB) and send that on the way. We even had the ability to set a Pulse Repetition Frequnecy (PRF) so mulitple designators could designate different targets and the aircraft could ripple off multiple weapons and each would home in on the coded laser reflection. Of course the russians wised up and put a laser warning system on their tanks so we just had to time it right. |
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Post by Rifleman on Aug 31, 2011 5:44:29 GMT -5
Pesky Russkies always coming up with new ways to spoil the party.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2011 15:17:23 GMT -5
COOL.....Rossman
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Post by rangeball on Sept 1, 2011 9:27:59 GMT -5
Thanks fellas. Now decision time... go with another cheap LRF and also buy a scouting camera, or get the bushnell and wait on the camera...
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Post by rangeball on Sept 1, 2011 10:52:10 GMT -5
the buy would be a Bushnell Yardage Pro Sport 850 for about the same price. rossman, is this the same as what you are recommending? www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=818881Sport 850, but doesn't say yardage pro. Want to make sure I'm not confusing models. |
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Post by lwh723 on Sept 1, 2011 11:39:34 GMT -5
I saw an Leica LRF800 used for $200 the other day. I love my LRF900. Dropped it from about 20' up onto frozen ground once, and it kept right on ticking. (Although I think the edge of the objective lense is cracked now, but the view is still fine.) One 9V lasts over a year.
I think the 800 was either on predatormasters or 24hr, but I can't remember which. Not sure if it's sold yet or not.
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Post by rangeball on Sept 1, 2011 12:19:05 GMT -5
I saw an Leica LRF800 used for $200 the other day. I love my LRF900. Dropped it from about 20' up onto frozen ground once, and it kept right on ticking. (Although I think the edge of the objective lense is cracked now, but the view is still fine.) One 9V lasts over a year. I think the 800 was either on predatormasters or 24hr, but I can't remember which. Not sure if it's sold yet or not. If you can find me a link I'll owe you BIG time  I will go look, but not sure what 24hr is? Crap, found it, sold  Thanks though. |
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Post by rossman40 on Sept 1, 2011 12:21:35 GMT -5
Rangeball, that's it! If you shop around you should be able to get it cheaper. SWFA had it for $169 IIRC.
The LRF800 for $200 ain't too bad as long as it was taken care of. Nothing worse to think you have a deal and then find out a guy left the battery in it for 3 years and it is corroded so bad you can't use it. Then your looking at electronics that are always improved. The main difference between the LRF800 and the LRF900 was not more power but just better recieving components. Now they are getting 1200yds with basicly the same laser output. A LRF800 is at least 10 years old IIRC. Another thing you have to watch buying used is the columation or alignment. With like the LRF800 you have three lenses, one is the laser going out, another is the laser reciever and the last is the optics you look thru. For it to work the crosshairs you look thru has to be centered on the laser point. Try to hit a speed limit sign at 400yds center and then go for the corners and see if all your readings come back the same.
If you shop around you can find the Elite 1500s from the military contract for around $300. The Elite 1600s are just the improved 1500s with a tad better electronics with more things to confuse you.
Usually the big number is the range for a reflective target, something shiney (a highly refective target like a traffic sign you can get another 15-20%). Range on a non-refective darget, like a tree or rock, you can cut it in half and then with something with fur on it less then that. If you can't get a range on a deer go for a rock or tree near him.
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Post by Rifleman on Sept 1, 2011 15:12:21 GMT -5
Ok Rossman, I thought I knew it all about the Laser Rangefinders but you have educated me once again, thank you Ken. Now let me ask you another question if I may, within these parameters in your opinion what is the best laser rangefinder available for a civilian to purchase:
1. Our shooter has deep pockets and does not mind spending money on excellent equipment.
2. Our shooter is not only a skilled long range marksman but he has also mastered the use of mil dots and other old school techniques for range finding, however he recognizes the superiority and speed of new technology.
3. Our shooter has multiple rifles and scopes at his disposal , he has super accurate rifles in .308, 300 Win mag, 338 Lapua, and 50 BMG.
4. Our shooter hunts big game all over the world and also works as a security contractor in overseas security markets. However he is required and even prefers to supply all his own equipment. So he does not have military equipment at his disposal.
5. He needs a laser rangefinder that will work at extreme ranges on both furred targets and other misc. " soft targets".
6. Our shooter always " hunts" with a partner who is also a trained spotter who carries both binoculars and spotting scope. Our shooter also has excellent scopes on all his rifles. Our shooter is a man with much field experience and has learned the importance of keeping his gear and weight to a minimum so he is highly opposed to any of the combination binocular/laser range finder combos as he considers them to be, at least in his case, superfluous at best and really prefers to have as small an unit as possible.
6. He just gave you his credit card and said go buy me the best you can get Ken.
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Post by rangeball on Sept 1, 2011 15:36:56 GMT -5
rossman, thanks a bunch, I located another one and was just about to come back and ask if a used Leica 800 out of warranty would be a better buy than the bushnell new with essentially a lifetime warranty (if bought from the sportmans guide). Guess that answers that Cabelas has the bushnell for $149. I've emailed SG to see if they'll price match and if they do will order it from them, especially since I have a choice between $90 refund or store credit for the bad LRF I'm sending back. Thanks a bunch all |
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Post by rossman40 on Sept 1, 2011 22:46:58 GMT -5
Most of the hunter/consumer stuff maxs out at 1600yds for a refective target so you will get around 800yds for a non-refective target and then maybe 600yds if your lucky on fur. If you want farther then that you got to step it up. There is a new company, Newcon Optiks, that will sell you the mid-range stuff. If you want a dedicated range finder with some "thump in the trunk" they have the LRM-2500 for $1,800 with range out to 2500 meters,  One of the problems you run into is that with most rangefinders is that your basicly looking thru a monocular that is a bit on the small side, 4 to 7 magnification with a objective around 25mm. Low light use sucks which is what made the Geovids awesome. Going to binos at longer ranges is a plus and trying to hit say a man size target at 2 klicks with 7X magnification is tough without steadying the rangefinder. I use to make my guys practice on turkey vultures at about 3 klicks. If you hit him you got a range, if you missed you didn't. If there is any turkey vultures blinded in one eye flying over Camp Atterbury you now know the reason... Binos are nice and for a mere $1,800 you can get a set aof 7X40 binos with a laser good out to 3000 meters.  Step up a notch and you have a 7X50 bino good to 4000 meters for $4000,  If you just have to be mil-spec you can get your own version of the AN/GVS-5 which is good now out to 25,000 meters for a mere $24,000,  |
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Post by Rifleman on Sept 2, 2011 4:08:46 GMT -5
I think I will get two of the $ 24,000 models. Thanks again Ken for the educma kation.
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Post by tar12 on Sept 7, 2011 8:22:34 GMT -5
Has anyone used the Bushnell 850? Your experience on deer? Thanks for the info Rossman...
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Post by rangeball on Sept 7, 2011 8:50:17 GMT -5
I should have mine any day and will be able to test it out long range on reflective and non-reflective targets, but the only fur I'm likely to see is the occasional stray dog |
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Post by tar12 on Sept 7, 2011 10:11:43 GMT -5
I should have mine any day and will be able to test it out long range on reflective and non-reflective targets, but the only fur I'm likely to see is the occasional stray dog Get you a friend to help out Rangeball...inquiring minds need to know! lol I have a Bushnell 450 I believe it is....it is great for bowhunting but long range stuff is iffy. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2011 18:45:37 GMT -5
Couple years ago I bought a Bushnell 1500 Elite on Amazon. It ranges small trees out to 1300yds. Never tried it on deer passed 400yds. I'll never regret paying a few dollars more ....at that time it was $340.... Been a good one so far. In fact it's been the best investment I've made with these muzzleloaders. Where I live there's a lot of wide open space and I found out early on that my built in range finder wasn't that accurate. Took a shot at a buck one time that I swore was 150yds but found out later with the rangefinder was 350yds.
Zen
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Post by jims on Sept 7, 2011 21:12:03 GMT -5
tar12: You must have a pretty decent rangefinder because you have been making some long range shots to remove those excess deer. Whatever you are using must work.
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Post by tar12 on Sept 7, 2011 22:06:44 GMT -5
tar12: You must have a pretty decent rangefinder because you have been making some long range shots to remove those excess deer. Whatever you are using must work. It does not always read. That is the problem. And it is getting worse and I do not trust it anymore. A lot of times I have to range large objects to get a accurate reading or a reading at all for that matter. It is going to cost me big time if i do not upgrade. |
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Post by rangeball on Sept 12, 2011 9:57:50 GMT -5
I should have mine any day and will be able to test it out long range on reflective and non-reflective targets, but the only fur I'm likely to see is the occasional stray dog Get you a friend to help out Rangeball...inquiring minds need to know! lol I have a Bushnell 450 I believe it is....it is great for bowhunting but long range stuff is iffy. Web says on the big brown truck for delivery today |
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Post by rangeball on Sept 12, 2011 12:31:56 GMT -5
Just showed up. Initial impressions: Feels very well made, screw off battery cap is nice. When you look through the right end (yeah, I didn't at first ) it is very clear and brighter than any I've looked through. I imagine this is because the exit pupil is a full 5mm, since the magnification is only 4x. Box clearly says 200yds max for deer. Hit power button to turn on. No turn off, only automatic after 30 seconds. Put ranging circle on target, hold the button down. Crosshairs outside of circle appear indicating laser is transmitting then a range read out appears. No scan mode, just hit the button when you want a range when the unit is on. Appears to be hitting targets accurately. A truck was driving away from me down the street in front of our office and I was able to keep getting longer ranges until he turned at 671 yards I was able to get a fur test behind our office. 26 yards to a cat slinking along No dogs running around at the moment, so longer range fur test will have to wait. So far really happy for the price I got it at. Will keep my eyes open for fur at range Played with it a bit during lunch. Drove to a horse "farm" on the edge of town. Due to topography at longer ranges I was having to shoot through wire strand fencing, I think that was making it harder to get consistent readings, but I was able to hit a horse 4 times at 408yds which seemed about righ. I moved closer about 100yds, and got a reading in the low 300s. From 200 in it was money. Tar, I would suggest buying it from the sportsmans guide and try it. They have a no time limit no questions asked return policy provided you keep your original receipt which has a return label on it. If it isn't an improvement, you're only out shipping and returning it is free. Rossman or anyone, something I'm wondering, do the lasers in these things cone out or are they a solid diameter stream at distance? If they cone, any idea of the moa at range? |
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Post by tar12 on Sept 12, 2011 20:46:32 GMT -5
Thanks for the range report and tip.. |
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Post by rossman40 on Sept 13, 2011 12:56:30 GMT -5
It all depends on the quality of the laser admitter. The big breakthru with handheld lasers was the laser diode in the late 80s. The longer the range, the better diode you have to have. Then there are atmospheric conditions that will disperse the beam like rain, snow, humidity (fog sucks), dust and even pollen. In the desert mirage (heat waves) would even cause problems if you were low to the ground, we would have to get on high ground or climb up on a vehcile to cut that down. Basicly your relieing on reflected energy of a certain wavelength and sometimes even a pulse frequency. So the more energy that gets to the target and is reflected back (and reaches the reciever) is the key over "dot" size but the stronger the dot the better.
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Post by rangeball on Sept 13, 2011 13:18:20 GMT -5
Thanks. Does the "dot" size increase with range?
Reason I'm asking is with the Bushnell only being 4x I had to be real steady to get on the horse at 400+ to get a reading. Just curious more than anything.
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I will go look, but not sure what 24hr is?