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Post by kenny549 on Aug 6, 2011 19:22:54 GMT -5
Going to load for a friend who is going bear hunting, what bullet would be a good choice. I have never shot a bear so I dont have a clue as to bullet selection. He says his shots will be within 50yds. Has anyone shot 265gr ftx bullets in their 44 mag, and how accurate were they? He is shooting a raging bull.
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Post by tar12 on Aug 7, 2011 14:25:16 GMT -5
Going to load for a friend who is going bear hunting, what bullet would be a good choice. I have never shot a bear so I dont have a clue as to bullet selection. He says his shots will be within 50yds. Has anyone shot 265gr ftx bullets in their 44 mag, and how accurate were they? He is shooting a raging bull. While the FTXs are very accurate they are also very thin skinned... my money would be on Cor-Bon ammo for bear hunting. Here is a link...they are expensive but cheaper than a bear mauling! ;D They have many choices but the link provided would be my first choice. www.shopcorbon.com/CORBON-Hunter/44-Rem-Mag-300gr-CORBON-Hunter-FPPN/HT44305FPPN-20/300/Product |
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Post by Rifleman on Aug 7, 2011 16:28:34 GMT -5
Are we talking Grizzly or Black bear, also what region of the country as some blacks in certain areas can get pretty big. I saw a large blackie today on Hwy 19 just North of Orlando, Fl. Most don't know there are black bears in Florida and I would say the one I saw was about a 250-300 boar. I saw one down in the same are a few years ago that would have topped 400. In NC they have shot blackies over 600 lbs.
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Post by thelefthand on Aug 7, 2011 23:46:26 GMT -5
I would opt for hard cast. Something along the lines of an Elmer Keith variant. Then again, if I were hunting bear with a 44, it would have to be a desert eagle so lead wouldn't work. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I was thinking that Barnes made some pretty tough handgun bullets, as did Nosler and Swift. A heavy Nosler Partition loaded hot might be a decent choice. If I were to hunt something that could hunt me back, and was bigger than me, then I'd opt for lots of penetration, and lots of ammo  |
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Post by kenny549 on Aug 8, 2011 8:27:50 GMT -5
Sorry I forgot to say which species of bear, my friend will be hunting black bears in Maine, and he said shots should be about 25yds. Is a 240gr xtp tough enough for bear, he said his shots will be in lung area and not through the shoulder.
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Post by rossman40 on Aug 8, 2011 11:26:44 GMT -5
IMHO the two top choices are the Swift A-Frame and the Nosler Partition. A friend swears by the Partition and has bagged just about everything in North America except mountain lion and mountain goats with a .44. With my own informal testing the Partition will penetrate better then anything else. The A-Frame stays together a bit better since it is bonded. Partition HGs are getting hard to find.
Proven performers are the A-Frames, Partitions and XTPs. Another bullet you might find collecting dust in some mom&pop shop is the Remington 300gr Core-Lokt which is a awesome bullet.
New bullets out there are the new Winchester Dual Bond and the Speer Deep Curl. I just do not go for "shredders" or "slice and dice" bullets (bullets that have thin sharp points after expanding) where you may have to go thru heavy bone.
240 to 300gr would be my weight range of choice leaning more towards the heavy end. Most bullets would work with a broadside lung shot but plan for the worse. Like if the bear doesn't follow the program and give you the broadside shot or you get the shot but you get excited and pull it into the shoulder.
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Post by tar12 on Aug 9, 2011 4:30:18 GMT -5
Kenny,
I know you said he will be taking lung shots only. Things can and will happen that cause us to miss our excact intended mark.The chances of this are increased using a pistol. Bears are considered dangerous game regardless of species and size. The bullet I suggested to you has been proven over and over again and it is a hardcast offering.Personally I would use nothing less than a hardcast or the A-Frame as Rossman suggested. They are proven bear breakers. If you are worried about cost you shouldnt be...
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Aug 9, 2011 5:08:22 GMT -5
I am with Tar12 on this one. I have killed several whitetails with my thunderhawk and .429 240gr bullets/ MV is about 1,400 fps. That's in the ballpark of a .44 mag hunting pistol...about exactly the same.
Just about every bullet was recovered on the off side....under the hide....with boiler room shots. Most of the time just the rear of the bullet and some lead were left.
On the other hand, 2 years ago I used a hardcast in Ozarks smokeless with 30 gr 4759 and was at about the same speed. 2 of the 4 deer I shot had raking angles that smashed multiple bones. One of these deer had a ragged 8 inch long bone sticking out the front of her chest when she hit the ground...immediately. All pass throughs
For a bear, this is what I'd want. This is a bullet that will make a hole through whatever you hit at any angle. Being flat and hard on the nose may be the difference between a glancing shot off a skull and a shot that digs in and hits he brain. I'm sure you won't be taking head shots....however, if a wounded bear comes at you, the head may be the desired shot....or be in the way of everything else.
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Post by mike3132 on Aug 9, 2011 9:03:32 GMT -5
240 grain is enough bullet to kill a bear if its loaded up on the high end. Black bear are not that tough to kill if the shot is placed right. If he waits and does a quartering away shot like you would with a bow the bear wont go far. Mike
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Post by kenny549 on Aug 9, 2011 13:06:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the imformation everyone. I think I will talk my friend into the 250gr nosler partition. I no the patitions are good bullets and are tough enough to do the job if you happen to hit bone first. Thanks again: Kenny 549
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Post by rossman40 on Aug 9, 2011 15:42:48 GMT -5
Try finding a box a box first, Nosler anounced that they were dropping the Partition HG a couple of years back and the hardcore handgunners bought them up like it was the end of the world. They whined pretty good and the last I heard Nosler was going to make limited production runs of .44 and .45. I only think they made one run before the fire at the plant last year. I haven't heard what the current plans are.
Wideners still had some .357 and .45 left and if your out combing the shelves they used to package the .44 (.429) Partitions with sabots for MLs.
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Post by Rifleman on Aug 10, 2011 5:57:45 GMT -5
One thing about "hard cast" bullets in handguns. You better make double sure you have an actual hard cast bullet. Some bullet makers cast lead bullets and label them hard cast, and in reality they are not much harder then a swaged bullet. Personally I think the whole "Keith style hard cast" thing is way over rated. I have a hard time believing the hard cast lead bullet is any more tough then a premium jacketed bullet. You can only make lead so hard, and if it is so hard, why do you have to add gas checks to them on high velocity loads? I also had a bad experience with some of the so called hard cast bullets. I shot a decent sized buck at 80 yds with a .357 158 gr Keith style hard cast in the shoulder and the bullet flattened out on the scapula and went up into the neck muscle. This was years ago when I was much younger and fitter. I saw the buck bust out way in front of me and figured he was gonna circle me on the opposite ridge. So I ran hard for 100 yards or so back to my rear and right, where I could watch the opposite ridge. I got there out of breath just in time to see him sneaking out and watching his back trail. I fired one round and called it good but the deer did not react to the shot. I fired again and got the classic leg kick and death run. Second shot was a double lung behind the shoulder. I figured since I was huffin and puffin I had missed the first shot and never really looked close before I skinned him. When I was skinning him I found the first shot had hit the scapula and ended up in the neck muscles. It was a non fatal shot. The bullet had gone flat and veered off. The point is I bought some bullets that were labeled hard cast and in reality they were cast but not hard. No doubt a real hard cast bullet would not have acted that way. But since then I have stuck with good jacketed bullets. I am entirely convinced that a 44 mag with factory 240 gr semi jacketed soft points is entirely suitable for black bear and would not get real excited about using any of the uber expensive premium ammo unless I was in grizzly country. Then I would be wanting a really big rifle as my primary and would only carry the revolver as a last ditch back up.
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Post by pposey on Aug 15, 2011 13:05:20 GMT -5
something heavy and hard thats for sure
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Post by ourway77 on Aug 31, 2011 9:54:40 GMT -5
I would say heavy bullet, max loads. I had my 44mag bored out to 445 SM gave me more oomph than the 44mag. The twist was ideal for both the 44 and the 445. Just a thought for your friend. Lou
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pmer
Button Buck
Posts: 8
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Post by pmer on Nov 27, 2012 22:02:56 GMT -5
I haven't bought jacketed boolits for a while but does Seirra still sell the 300 grain flat point for the 44? Places like Cast Performance or Bear Tooth bullets sell good cast bullets. It can be hit and miss buying lead bullets and getting them to shoot good in a revolver if they are not gas checked. It helps cover up poor fitting. You can push unchecked bullets at top velocities in the 44 but there is a learning curve.
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Post by youp50 on Dec 13, 2012 10:05:22 GMT -5
I hope things turned out well and you followed most of the advice here. I am sorry I did not see this soon enough to help. Here is a factory jacketed hollow point 210 gr from a 41 Mag. Not much different than your 44 really.  The range was less the 5 feet muzzle to bear. The bear was a decent 270 some odd pounds. The shot placement was spot on behind the front shoulder. The bear was already knocked out of a tree by a good rifle shot. Bear was mostly dead and the shot was a bullet test only. Here is the interior of the rib cage.  Never broke a rib, never got into the cavity. Jacketed hollow point pistol bullets of the cup and core design do not cut it on bears. Not in 44 or 45 or 41. The bear hunters I know that use pistols, use hard cast lead bullets. Graphic reason why. |
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Post by Rifleman on Dec 13, 2012 13:26:14 GMT -5
Or it might be that a JHP is a poor choice and they have not tried something in a quality JSP.
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Post by youp50 on Dec 13, 2012 16:08:49 GMT -5
The bullet shown is a Federal. Who made it? I know I have seen 44 cal XTPs not cut the mustard either. Don't know if they are quality bullets or not. At least that is what the guy who pulled the trigger said they were.
Bears are very much different than a deer. Ribs are round not flat. A good layer of fat between the hide and bone. The hide and hair is thicker and tougher too.
Trouble with hard cast bullets is they lack the 'slap' you get with expanding bullets. When you are in a cornfield with a 4-5 hundred pounder fighting dogs and you get a chance to get him leaking, started on his way to the 'happy picinic basket' you better have a bullet up to the task.
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Post by Savage Shooter on Dec 13, 2012 16:23:35 GMT -5
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Post by Rifleman on Dec 13, 2012 16:46:19 GMT -5
I don't even use JHP's on deer, most of them are far too fast expanding for pass throughs consistently. I like to use the JSP's as they are a little tougher. I do think SS is on to something with his suggestions.
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Post by Savage Shooter on Dec 13, 2012 16:53:49 GMT -5
225 Barnes XPB...............Got excellent hydrostatic shock (slap I believe someone called it earlier)  but with still keeping deep penetration! Won't glance on hard bone hits either. Expansion is the same in shoulder or in the ribs or behind the ear. Fast & Flat for a bit longer shot potential. |
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Post by Al on Dec 13, 2012 17:19:53 GMT -5
The bullet shown is a Federal. Who made it? I know I have seen 44 cal XTPs not cut the mustard either. Don't know if they are quality bullets or not. At least that is what the guy who pulled the trigger said they were. Bears are very much different than a deer. Ribs are round not flat. A good layer of fat between the hide and bone. The hide and hair is thicker and tougher too. Trouble with hard cast bullets is they lack the 'slap' you get with expanding bullets. When you are in a cornfield with a 4-5 hundred pounder fighting dogs and you get a chance to get him leaking, started on his way to the 'happy picinic basket' you better have a bullet up to the task. Tell ya, nothing gets the ole pucker factor going more than bears, and bears with dogs on the ground up close and personnel, will make the ole butt cheeks pinch a nickle until the Indian is riding the buffalo. Youp, find a good 300gr SWC hardcast and put it over 21-22gr of H110/296, trust me, that load will put a slap on bears all day long. |
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Post by youp50 on Dec 13, 2012 22:25:14 GMT -5
I have some 220 gr heat treated hard bullets. At least I think 22 bhn is hard. I can't remember if its over 4227 or 2400.
The load was used on a wounded bear this year. Put neat 41 caliber holes through the heart. Two of them. A shot to the cranium sealed the deal.
Sometimes you have to take what is offered.
I will poke about and try to find some 300 grain bullets. I think I have a mold around somewheres. Don't think its that big though.
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