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Post by slugger on Mar 23, 2011 14:50:18 GMT -5
I'm going to try some of my own this year. I have some "Duplex" loads that some here say are junk, and I have some monsters #4 buck ones ( yes we can use buck of any kind),I loaded both. But upon further review I'll try some in a different direction. I'm getting what I think are good patterns on both out of the 870 but the boy and his 1300 are not as satisfied. SO We will try some of this on paper.
Fiocchi 3" brown hull
Turkey Ranger 12ga slit wad
www.ballisticproducts.com/Turkey-Ranger-12ga-slit-wad-bag_100/productinfo/3221201/
2 oz of nickel plated #5 lead shot
I'm testing 34 gr Blue dot
and or 25 gr 800X
1 O/S card & and crimp
I couldn't get a good crimp with a full 2 ounce so I backed down to 1 7/8, the crimp looks a lot better and will stay a lot better. With the 800X the crimp would be ok with 2 full oz but then it would be a different load. I hope to get this on paper soon.
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Post by mountainam on Mar 27, 2011 7:04:15 GMT -5
I've done a lot of ammocrafting for Turkey and after shooting hundreds of patterns and counting thousands of pellets there are certain trends that become obvious. In all my experimenting it seems that the tightest cored patterns DO NOT come from the loads that are packed with extra shot. I've found that 1 7/8 oz shoots the tightest in a 12ga 3.5" shell; 1 3/4oz for a 3" casing and I DO have one awesome 1 5/8"oz 2 3/4" that rivals the 3" loads.
You are definitely on the right track with BP's Turkey Ranger and the Blue Dot. You may look into using BP's buffer if you are not already doing so. I've also found that if velocities are kept around 1200fps they are a lot more core dense than any store-bought 1300fps loads except perhaps the Heavy Shot stuff. Make yourself a Plexiglas ring to actually test your patterns. The o.d. should be 30" and I.D.should be 10". Then cut out a cardboard ring of 24" o.d. x 10" i.d. This will allow you to study the migration of pellets from the core to the annular ring. When wing shooting you want the same amount of pellets in the outer ring as the core. But for longbeards you want them ALL in the 10" core. That of course is impossible. I also use the #5 pellet and feel it gvies the best density. I just have never been able to get #4's to pattern to my satisfaction. Also, if you didn't already, purchase one of BP's roll crimpers. They seem to help even out your patterns. I pattern at 50yds. You don't need a turkey gun to get good patterns at 35 and 40 yds. I've made swat-down kills at 82 steps with the CP#5 3 1/2" loads and a Remington .655" Ventilator choke tube. Those loads will put 80-92 #5's in that 10"
circle referred to above at 50yds. Good luck on your ammocrafting!
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Mar 27, 2011 12:45:39 GMT -5
How fast is a #5 pellet that started out at 1200 MV going at 82 yds?
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Post by mountainam on Mar 27, 2011 21:36:30 GMT -5
Wilms, I don't know offhand, but in that particular turkey we counted 18 hits in the head and neck area. One of my high performance shotgun loading manuals discourage high velocity loads. It's claimed that the princples that apply to rifle bullets don't apply to shot pellets. Higher velocities disperse the core count as a shotgun kills the most efficiently with multiple hits otherwise we could use BB size shot and hope for a hit. I'll dig through my info to find the charts that give the figures that you are looking for. I know i've seen them but don't recall the exact figures.
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Post by artjr338wm on Apr 4, 2011 22:05:16 GMT -5
Mountainman,
Your research mirrors mine excactly. The second worse patterning turkey shells I ever shot and I at that point had shot 95%+ of what was out there, were the active 12ga 3" mag with 2oz of #4 shot.
Best buffered lead turkey shells I have shot to date were the Winchester supreme turkey loads that featured 1.75oz of #4 shot. Utterly devistating at ranges I feel uncomfortable talking about, but knocks turkeys OTA and DRT for the 14 or so Toms I have taken with them. Took 12-14 Toms with Winchesters Hevior than lead turkey loads, but now they are $35 per ten I will go back to the old lead Winchesters once they are all gone in about 3-4 more seasons.
I had heard from a builder of custom rifles and turkey guns (Basner(sp?) custom guns) way over 12yrs ago that anything more than 1-5/8oz in 12ga-3" and 1-3/4 to 1-7/8oz in 12ga 3.5" shells will do far more harm than good.
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Post by mike3132 on Apr 5, 2011 7:20:03 GMT -5
Over all I think Winchester turkey shells pattern in most any gun and choke. Ive shot several different lengths and shot size and Winchester always seem to pattern well. Winchester 3" 1 3/4oz HV shells pattern out past 50 yards in my 835. Im using Winchester Xtended Range 3 1/2" 2oz #6 this year and the patterns are devastating but they should be for $3.50 a shell. Mike
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Post by hornet22savage on May 22, 2011 20:43:44 GMT -5
What would you guys reccomend for a newbie using a fixed mod choke? Guns is a Stevens 167H 3" chamber 28" Barrel and fixed mod choke.
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Post by mike3132 on May 23, 2011 9:21:24 GMT -5
Winchester XX #5 or Winchester high velocity #5. What ever you decide to shoot make sure you pattern the gun at different distances out to 25-30-35-40 yards. The pattern should have enough shot at each distance to kill a bird. A mod choke will be limited on the distance you can shoot. Mike
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Post by Rifleman on May 23, 2011 13:38:15 GMT -5
What a great thread, I am learning alot. I don't turkey hunt yet but sometime I would sure like to. On another note I used to load heavy loads for annie-oakley competition in trap shooting and one time tried some powder called Long- Shot. I never patterened the loads but you could get a 1 1/4 oz load going at 1600 fps+ with that powder according to the reloading data if I remember correctly. Have you guys ever tried that powder?
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Post by slugger on May 23, 2011 13:49:05 GMT -5
;D Not yet!!! ;D
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Post by Rifleman on May 23, 2011 13:53:55 GMT -5
This is a quote from the Hodgdon website:
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Post by Rifleman on May 23, 2011 13:59:58 GMT -5
OOPs sorry slugger I am afraid I got your hopes up, my memory failed me again. It was not 1600 fps with a 1 1/4 load, it was 1500 fps with a 1 1/8 th load. I just reviewed the data on the Hodgdon site. It is still a great powder, just not as good as I thought I remembered.
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Post by mountainam on May 23, 2011 19:52:34 GMT -5
Hornet, Believe it or not most modified chokes tend to pattern #4's better than the tighter turkey chokes. You may be better off with some 2 3/4" if your doing the off the shelf stuff. But at 3.50 ea for the heavy shot, you'll spend $50 at the pattern board. If you handload, I have some real WHAMMY loads for 2 3/4" shells using C.P. lead and Ballistic products components. Just a tip, don't believe any of the HYPE on the ammo boxes. Test pattern and count the pellets in the centered 10" core to determine maximum range. I like at least 50 pellets in a 10" core for a reliable smack-down.
Rifleman, I tried Longshot powder and it does not perform as advertised. Yes you get the velocities, but patterns just plain stink! It blows the core count and your 30" pellet count is actually less. I DO use it for rabbit loads at close range. You don't need to use spreader wads because the Longshot does it for you. So it does work---just not for turkey loads or tight patterns.
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Post by hornet22savage on May 23, 2011 21:14:41 GMT -5
Yeah you see I bought a box of Remington Nitro Mag 3" #5's 17/8 and a package of the HS Turkey targets. I patterened at 30,35 and 40 yards. The most pellets I got into the kill zone on the target were 7 and that was at 35 yards. Nobody really gave me any real good info on how to pattern or shoot for that fact. It seems that all my patterens were really low. How do you aim on a bird with only a bead? Do you want to see the whole bead or just the top? Aim at the bottom of the head or top? I hate to sound ignorant here but I never shot turkeys before. I can shoot clay's all day but that not at 40+ yards.
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Post by Rifleman on May 23, 2011 23:41:00 GMT -5
I am not surprised that core count is low, from what I have seen, as a general rule, the faster the load the harder it is to get it to pattern tight. But for shooting as the 3rd or 4th gun in an Annie Oakley, speed is a handy thing to have trying to hit a dropping clay at well past the 50 yard mark. It only takes one pellet to get a chip off that bird, and in that game, a chip is as good as a smoke. Maybe even better since the next gunner won't shoot at a smoke, but he might shoot if he doesn't see the chip, and if he does shoot he gets a mark.
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Post by mountainam on May 24, 2011 14:49:15 GMT -5
Hornet, If your gun shoots that bad you may want to invest in a Turkey gun. Pick up a used Mossberg 835. They come with a 10ga bore that enhances patterning by lessening pellet deformation on it's ride down the bore. Used ones go for around $250. And they are easy to get rid of if you don't need it anymore. It isn't an 870 Rem but there is actually better science behind the barrel. The rest is built like a Chinese gun, but it will serve your purpose. You say you shoot clays. I don't know which game you shoot. If it's Trap then you are shooting a target at 38yds on average when shooting from the 16yd line. For skeet the farthest your target gets broken at the stake is 21yds. If you reload for clays you should reload for turkey. Everything you need is available at www.ballisticproducts.com |
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Post by hornet22savage on May 26, 2011 17:47:40 GMT -5
Well when I say I shoot Clays I mean I have a launcher and I throw them and shoot them no cetrain game or rythem. I'm thinking of gettring into skeet though. No I don't reload anything.
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