Side Lock Muzzleloaders...........Loadings
Dec 3, 2010 20:08:29 GMT -5
Post by smokepole50 on Dec 3, 2010 20:08:29 GMT -5
I was going to comment on a few older post below but it seems that some info needs to be talked about in a new thread. Maybe it will answer some of your questions about why your rifle does not shoot well with X bullet or why you can't get a Round Ball to shoot at all in your rifle.
Now to start with there are Round Ball Twist barrels, Conical Bullet Twist barrels and what I like to call Compromise Twist barrels. They are all different for a reason............
The early Round Ball barrels had a vey slow twist and deep grooves. This was for a reason. The deep grooves were to better grip the patch and the slow twist was to allow a full load of powder that would not tear the patch as the RB traveled down the bore. If you tear the patch because it is to thin or because the twist is to fast then your RB has lost it contact with the barrel and your accuracy will suck! Also a RB is a ballistically perfect projectile as it is as wide as it is long so it takes very little spin to stabilize it in flight as long as it maintains it speed. Once it slows down it starts to drift just like a nuckle ball will.
A Conical Bullet barrel is ment to spin long bullets. 1:28 being about the ideal twist for most ML calibers shooting Maxi-balls or saboted bullets. You can go with a faster twist but if you get much slower then you accuracy will suffer if you try and use heavier and LONGER bullets for a given caliber. The longer the bullet the more twist that is needed to stabilize it in flight. Conical Bullet barrels have shallow grooves usually about .004 to .005 deep.
A Compromise Twist barrel is a barrel like a .50 T/C Hawken or any of the ML's that were made in the 1970's and 1980's prior to Knight getting together with Green Mountain and making the MK85 and the first production 1:28 modern BP rifle. These early modern ML's had a compromise 1:48 twist. The manufacture wanted to sell Maxi-balls so they made a barrel that would shoot both maxi-balls and Round Balls. The problem was that this twist would not shoot either bullet fast and many a ML was left setting in the corner because people did not know what the deal was.
I built my first ML in 1976, a T/C Hawken .50 cal. It took me awhile and a lot of questions to figure out what was going on. It was very accurate with a patched round ball as long as I did not load it with more that 50gr of 2F. This was because of the shallow depth of the grooves and the fast twist that would rip the patch if I pushed the bullet out the barrel to fast with a hot load. 50gr of 2F and I could shoot squirrels in the head with it, 90gr of 2F and I could not hit a 55gal drum at 50 yards with it. Similar issues arose with the use of the Maxi-ball. The twist was not fast enough for a .50 cal. conical bullet that long weighing 370gr. Then came the Maxi-Hunter in 240gr and the twist/stabilization problems were solved. Finally a T/C Break-Away sabot and a 240gr Horn. Swaged HP .44 caliber all lead bullet was the final piece of the puzzle for the ole 1:48 twist but even that load was limited to about 100 gr before it started having issues.
The Compromise Twist barrels caused a lot of confusion and a lot of bad info put out by hunters that did not understand the differences between a Round Ball barrel and a Conical Bullet barrel. Conical bullet barrels have shallow rifling and RB barrels have deep rifling. RB barrels have slow twist and CB barrels have fast twist. I am not sure what the 1:32 barrels were for other then a stepping stone to 1:28 twist.
If you want a round ball barrel that is cheap and will shoot well, buy yourself a Lyman Great Plains rifle with a 1:60 twist in .54 caliber. It shoots a 220gr RB and I can hit soda cans all day long with mine at 50 yards with a 100gr BP charge. If you want to shoot conicals in a factory rifle then get a 1:28 twist in your favorite brand. Just realize that one BP rifle does not shoot both bullets well and understand why.
Round Ball Patches.............
Because the round ball is a patch ridding bullet you need to fit the RB and patch to the barrel. The tighter you can get the fit without cutting the patch with the rifling the better your accuracy will be because it will seal the powder charge better and be less likely to have blow-by burning the patch in the groove area. This burning can cause accuracy issues as the ball and patch leave the muzzle. A good lube is inportant but selecting the right thickness patch is the biggest issue. In my 54 caliber Lyman Great Plain's rifle I use Cold Swaged Horn. RB's that measure .535 dia. This leaves .005 or .0025 to the lands on each side of the RB. I then patch it with a, IIRC its been awhile, .015 pre lubed patch. This gives me a compressed patch surface between the RB and the lands and plenty of patch material to fill the grooves for a good seal. It loads a bit tighter but it wipes the barrel good when it is pushed down the bore and it seals well giving good accuracy up to 100gr loads.
I hope some of this helps answer questions that might arise as to why your old Smokepole rifle won't shoot a give bullet.
Smokepole50
Now to start with there are Round Ball Twist barrels, Conical Bullet Twist barrels and what I like to call Compromise Twist barrels. They are all different for a reason............
The early Round Ball barrels had a vey slow twist and deep grooves. This was for a reason. The deep grooves were to better grip the patch and the slow twist was to allow a full load of powder that would not tear the patch as the RB traveled down the bore. If you tear the patch because it is to thin or because the twist is to fast then your RB has lost it contact with the barrel and your accuracy will suck! Also a RB is a ballistically perfect projectile as it is as wide as it is long so it takes very little spin to stabilize it in flight as long as it maintains it speed. Once it slows down it starts to drift just like a nuckle ball will.
A Conical Bullet barrel is ment to spin long bullets. 1:28 being about the ideal twist for most ML calibers shooting Maxi-balls or saboted bullets. You can go with a faster twist but if you get much slower then you accuracy will suffer if you try and use heavier and LONGER bullets for a given caliber. The longer the bullet the more twist that is needed to stabilize it in flight. Conical Bullet barrels have shallow grooves usually about .004 to .005 deep.
A Compromise Twist barrel is a barrel like a .50 T/C Hawken or any of the ML's that were made in the 1970's and 1980's prior to Knight getting together with Green Mountain and making the MK85 and the first production 1:28 modern BP rifle. These early modern ML's had a compromise 1:48 twist. The manufacture wanted to sell Maxi-balls so they made a barrel that would shoot both maxi-balls and Round Balls. The problem was that this twist would not shoot either bullet fast and many a ML was left setting in the corner because people did not know what the deal was.
I built my first ML in 1976, a T/C Hawken .50 cal. It took me awhile and a lot of questions to figure out what was going on. It was very accurate with a patched round ball as long as I did not load it with more that 50gr of 2F. This was because of the shallow depth of the grooves and the fast twist that would rip the patch if I pushed the bullet out the barrel to fast with a hot load. 50gr of 2F and I could shoot squirrels in the head with it, 90gr of 2F and I could not hit a 55gal drum at 50 yards with it. Similar issues arose with the use of the Maxi-ball. The twist was not fast enough for a .50 cal. conical bullet that long weighing 370gr. Then came the Maxi-Hunter in 240gr and the twist/stabilization problems were solved. Finally a T/C Break-Away sabot and a 240gr Horn. Swaged HP .44 caliber all lead bullet was the final piece of the puzzle for the ole 1:48 twist but even that load was limited to about 100 gr before it started having issues.
The Compromise Twist barrels caused a lot of confusion and a lot of bad info put out by hunters that did not understand the differences between a Round Ball barrel and a Conical Bullet barrel. Conical bullet barrels have shallow rifling and RB barrels have deep rifling. RB barrels have slow twist and CB barrels have fast twist. I am not sure what the 1:32 barrels were for other then a stepping stone to 1:28 twist.
If you want a round ball barrel that is cheap and will shoot well, buy yourself a Lyman Great Plains rifle with a 1:60 twist in .54 caliber. It shoots a 220gr RB and I can hit soda cans all day long with mine at 50 yards with a 100gr BP charge. If you want to shoot conicals in a factory rifle then get a 1:28 twist in your favorite brand. Just realize that one BP rifle does not shoot both bullets well and understand why.
Round Ball Patches.............
Because the round ball is a patch ridding bullet you need to fit the RB and patch to the barrel. The tighter you can get the fit without cutting the patch with the rifling the better your accuracy will be because it will seal the powder charge better and be less likely to have blow-by burning the patch in the groove area. This burning can cause accuracy issues as the ball and patch leave the muzzle. A good lube is inportant but selecting the right thickness patch is the biggest issue. In my 54 caliber Lyman Great Plain's rifle I use Cold Swaged Horn. RB's that measure .535 dia. This leaves .005 or .0025 to the lands on each side of the RB. I then patch it with a, IIRC its been awhile, .015 pre lubed patch. This gives me a compressed patch surface between the RB and the lands and plenty of patch material to fill the grooves for a good seal. It loads a bit tighter but it wipes the barrel good when it is pushed down the bore and it seals well giving good accuracy up to 100gr loads.
I hope some of this helps answer questions that might arise as to why your old Smokepole rifle won't shoot a give bullet.
Smokepole50
