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Post by petev on Feb 17, 2009 21:40:42 GMT -5
I manage a machine shop and one of my department heads was paralyzed and in a wheelchair, but he was at work almost every day...and an able bodied person is sitting at home , watching Oprah, taking drugs, drinking, and making more babies that they can't pay for are taking money out of his paycheck!! Give me a break, that is just sick! edge. I guess working and not working are both habit forming. It seems that some are uncomfortable unless they are productive, and some have the habit ingrained over time to not work, and just play the system. Here in N.Y. former Gov. Pataki started workfare, and some on welfare were forced to take whatever job was available in order to get benefits, but I think the program only had a little impact. In this area being on welfare seems almost synonymous with being on drugs and having a bunch of kids. Some people legitimately need assistance of course. I guess we agree Edge!
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Post by edge on Feb 17, 2009 22:49:31 GMT -5
SNIP Some people legitimately need assistance of course. I guess we agree Edge! Yes, I completely agree, but asking an able bodied person to work should be mandatory, IMO. People that get things for free will rarely appreciate the value. When I moved away from home, I could not afford much and moved to a lower middle class working neighborhood. Very few houses were rentals, except for 1/2 of a duplex with the owner on the other side. The lawns were mowed, the driveways were not littered, and sidewalks were swept regularly! These people had great pride in ownership! I ask you to think about this: 1) What percentage of owner occupied homes built since the 50's have been torn down due to owner neglect and vandalism; 2) what percentage of "free" housing for the poor built since the 60's is still standing? While I don't know the numbers, I bet the answers to both questions is under 10%! edge.
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Post by petev on Feb 17, 2009 23:38:39 GMT -5
Again, I agree with what you're saying Edge. I am one year in difference from you, and when I started out I lived in rooming houses for 3 years and just made ends meet. Through work I didn't do too bad.
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Post by getonit on Feb 18, 2009 13:34:01 GMT -5
Wow- this is a good conversation here....I've seen first hand much of whats been talked about here- from"job"creation to personal responsibility/work- a few years back our community 'created' jobs when a new engineer was hired- his department was staffed in the past with 3 people...he was able to convince city council to pass a whole new building code that 'ahem' comes with increasing fees for every step of constuction- a new sidewalk program for the town- with fees on everything- all going to fund the new larger engineering dept.-- the fee increases were steep- a building permit previously would only be $5 increased to above $200 based on sq.ft. and a book of other new fees still fund it..... with no decernable benefits other than making it more expensive for everybody to improve their property. as a landlord with a handful of rental properties I like to keep my houses neat and well kept- a nicer rental has less turnover than a slum....but its a catch 22 how much you do to them and still keep them profitable... If I make a mistake and get the wrong renter or wellfare buddy in one alot of damage can accure- past experiance shows me people who work for their money will usually take better care of where they live...before I retired from my machinist job last year the plant I worked at ran a manditory overtime of 16 hrs per week- and some of the laziest people would ask for more overtime yet- because they would get gravy jobs while working it without any labor involved. some of the guys not wanting overtime still had to work it though, for reasons of family time, ect. I cant fault a guy for not taking overtime if his reasons are good- though I dont like the fact some people abuse the system to milk it. Rick
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Post by Buckrub on Feb 18, 2009 15:30:56 GMT -5
If people legitimately need assistance, it should NOT come from the Government. That's just not the Government's job, and as I keep saying, they're awful at it anyway.
This system cannot be 'fixed'. Sad.
But there are no more "America's" to go to. New Zealand wants you to deposit $2,000,000 in one of their banks for 2 years before they'll let you in to live there. Now they also are looking to see if they can keep out fat people! I honestly don't know where to go, even if I wasn't too old to go. I'm sure our Founding Fathers' Fathers loved England, very much. But they couldn't overthrow a Monarchy so they left. They didn't have any options other than to live the way they were told to live.
They chose another path.
I'm pretty sure we (me included mostly) are too lazy for that kind of thing.
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Post by petev on Feb 18, 2009 21:13:44 GMT -5
I'm sure our Founding Fathers' Fathers loved England, very much. But they couldn't overthrow a Monarchy so they left. They didn't have any options other than to live the way they were told to live. They chose another path. I'm sorry Buckrub, but that just isn't correct history. After the English first landed in New England, the Colonial period lasted in America for about 150 years. At the start of the Revolution, there was no intention of breaking away from England, only to get England to address grievances. George Washington did not want to break away until a year or so into the Revolution. There were all sorts of reasons people from different countries came during the Colonial period, but frustration at not being able to overthrow their country's government wasn't one of them.
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Post by petev on Feb 18, 2009 21:18:27 GMT -5
Well, today I'm sure that everyone heard that the President signed a bill authorizing the bailout of the mortgage holders, who are in default. For the first time, everyone in the country is required to chip in to save people's houses from foreclosure. Yet the money for infrastructure was cut greatly, so the States and contractors who are supposed to be "shovel ready" don't know where they stand now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2009 21:27:23 GMT -5
what the current president has pushed through is a MASSIVE ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM that will be but a puff of smoke on a clear day, will it create jobs? Yes for a short time, and who do you think will be working these jobs? Did anyone follow the discussions as the bill went through on the floor? After watching some of the clips of these discussions its very clear, ENTITLEMENT.... period!
The government cant create wealth, all they can do is spend it! When the politicians and high rollers shipped all of our manufacturing overseas & to mexico in the late 80s and 90s via Nafta, Gatt and the world trade agreement our ability as a nation to create wealth went with it. Wealth is created by making products and selling them at a profit. When all the free trade talk was going on back then there were some that were screaming what the results of such thinking would be but there was too much money to be made and few listened. I am afraid our nation will never return to the booming economy we once had because we have lost our ability to create wealth/ jobs.......just my take, ( an old hillbilly).
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