G5 fixed blade broadheads

[Harley]

I'm starting a new thread rather than adding to the "Rage" thread because I intend to report on these new broadheads as I test them.

After all the searching for a "pefect" mechanical head, and after using mechanicals for several years, today I ordered the G5 Montec CS in 100 grain, plus the pre-season practice broadhead and the sharpening stone.

Almost all reviews have been overwhelmingly positive; the only occasional negative was some people not being satisfied with their ability to sharpen them. The new "CS" designation means carbon steel; it is claimed to be 25% sharper than the original; I hope it is also easier to re-sharpen.

We'll see, and I'll keep you posted.

Harley

[dougedwards]

Blade sharpness is a critical element for both penetration and hemorrhaging potential. I have no idea what the benefit of shooting a serrated blade could be such as is displayed on the popular Magnus Buzzcut. It would seem that a clean cut would have a much harder time coagulating than a rougher uneven cut. Also if the blade only nudges the outer layer of an artery with slight contact I am more hopeful that a very sharp blade will slice rather than push aside.

Harley......I am interested in your evaluation of the G5 not only for it's ability to sharpen but also for it's potential to shoot consistently. From only the appearance of them I would assume that they should penetrate well while creating a decent wound channel.

Happy Memorial Day everyone!

Doug

[Harley]

Doug, all reviewers speak favorably of the G5's penetrating ability and one-piece solid steel design. They also claim it "flies like a field point".

I never had problems with a fixed blade design, and only went to mechanicals because I always am a candidate for the latest and greatest. Now I'm tired of making excuses for the failures of my mechanical broadheads.

I don't really care if the G5 flies like a field point as long as they fly consistently. I'll tune my bow for them before the start of hunting season.

So, this'll be a two part report over time: First to see if they will group, especially out to 40+ yards, and second to see what they'll do on live game. Along the way I'll also see just how well they sharpen and hold an edge.

Harley

P.S.: I suspect serrated designs are out there to catch the eye of hunters; they do look deadly, but I think you are correct in your assessment that they are inferior to a sharp, clean cut.

[deadeye]

i have a good friend that used the montec last year-his report,they flew great out to 70yds his longest shooting but he had some weird deflections after arrow entering the deer. he is not sure what caused these but suspects it was not the broadhead. he does have a bunch of muzzy fixed100/3blds that i have been unsuccessful on letting me have those ;D the local pro-shop confirms the g5 is a good broadhead.

[Harley]

Nothing comes easy.

Since the day I received the Z7 I've been dissatisfied that I couldn't paper tune it to shoot perfect bullets. I tried everything I knew, including two different style arrow rests, multiple nocks, different arrows and all the up/down/lateral adjustments; I even paid a Mathews pro-staffer for his help. I got close, but not perfect.

Today, with nothing better to do than obsess over my bow, I tried again. This time I got it: It was as simple as substituting a 125 grain point for the 100 grain point I've always used. Perfect bullets on the few test shots I've taken. I haven't shot the new arrow weight through the chrony, but don't expect any major change; the heavier point should actually increase momentum, and thus penetration.

Of course, this means I can't use the new G5 that I ordered yesterday (100 gn); Cabela's has already shipped that order; I can send it back, paying postage, but just found out that the CS version that I want is made only in 100 grain. Guess I'll order the standard Montec 125 grain and see if I have any success sharpening it.

Harley

[dougedwards]

Were your measurements taken at the exact same distance each time to paper tune? If so, then maybe the heavier point created the proper FOC for your arrow. Sometimes paper tuning is done with the bow too close to the paper and if a weaker spine is used the arrow hasn't finished it's bending through the air before it hits the paper.

I don't worry too much about paper tuning actually. It seems to me that the "walk back" tuning method provides more useful information but the paper tune is certainly not a waste of time. You may have discovered that your arrows fly better with a higher front of center balance from your Z7.

Doug

[Harley]

I know this is getting ridiculous, but forget everything I said about switching to the 125 grain G5.

I already told you I am compulsive, just can't leave well enough alone; so, I kept worrying on why I suddenly needed 125 grain points when I had always used 100's with similar configurations.

First, I replaced my D-loop, being careful to give myself as much nock space as possible. After tightening the loop with loop pliers I compared the Blazer and the Carbon Maxx nocks. Both were slightly pinched.

Then, I screwed on the original 100 grain tips and paper tested. It went nock right, as before.

In a drawer, from some distant time, I found a pack of "Tune-A-Nock FS" by Q.A.D. These are only 5.5 grains, have very short ears and are significantly narrower in diameter than the standard nock. I pressed one on the shaft and shot four bullets in a row.

Conclusion: The Z7 is a sensitive B---- that won't tolerate even a gentle squeeze on the nock.

BTW, I had to employ a trick I've used for a lifetime, but haven't seen mentioned elsewhere: The Mathews serving is a monofilament that results in a slightly larger string than most. Every nock I've tried has had way too much of a press fit on the string. Rather than re-serve the string, I heat a half-inch of water to boiling, then force a nail into the nock and set the nock in the water for a few seconds. When the plastic is malleable I shape the nock around the string. It's a good fit when the nock will slide on the string, but is retained until I flick the string with my finger.

Stay tuned.

Harley

P.S.: I just shot the new Q.A.D. nock through the chrony at 50, 55, and 60#; at each setting I picked up 3 fps.

[Harley]

Doug, I did measure and place tape exactly eight feet from my paper stand for the paper tuning. I also tried three differently spined arrows, two nocks and two points. Today alone I shot roughly a hundred arrows through the paper. Nothing worked until I put the small Q.A.D. nock on the shaft.

I could speculate that the 125 grain tip somehow overcame the string resistance on the original nocks, but I don't really have a clue. You'd think, really, that the heavier tip would make the arrow behave as though it had a weaker spine.

Anyway, I'll cool off, rest up, and see if it all still works.

Harley

[boarhog]

My Son, Littlepig, uses the 100 gr Montec 3 blade. It has performed well on the few deer he has harvested. I am still using Sattilite 3 blade because I'm too cheap to change when I have perfectly good heads on the arrows, and spares in the box. If I was in the mood to change, it would be a hard choice between Muzzy or Montec.

[Harley]

Boarhog, it was a hard choice between those two for me, also. I once hunted with the brother and sister who owned Muzzy, and nostalgia inclined me their way; but, there were too many good reviews on the Montec to pass it up; plus, I want to see how sharp the new CS may be.

Harley

[dougedwards]

And to think that I was going to take those 100 gr Montecs off your hands for you ;D ;D

Doug

[dougedwards]

I have a friend that uses those heavy Terminator arrows and Allen broadheads from Walmart and doggone if he doesn't kill a nice buck every year with them. He thinks I have been bamboozled by archery advertising to believe that if I pay more I will be better equipt. Maybe he is right.

Doug

[Harley]

My order of two 3-packs of 100gn G5 CS, one 3-pack of pre-season practice heads and the sharpening stone arrived today.

First, I tested sharpness against hair on my arm; they cut as well as any I've ever tried, what someone called "scary sharp"; so, I'm no longer worried about that. I've never tried the regular G5's, so don't know if they are as sharp as the CS, but I suspect they aren't.

The sharpening stone looks great, and the cordura case is perfect for it.

The pre-season practice blades are colored black and coated with a slippery substance for easier target removal. Look good.

Next, I weighed all the blades on my RCBS Chargemaster 1500 digital scale (claimed reliability + or - .1 gn). Each blade was weighed twice and I kept the different packs apart in order to test variances among "lots".

Pre-season blades:

102.4
102.8
102.8

The average was 102.7 gns. The spread among them was .4 gns.

Lot 1 100 gn G5 CS:

98.5
98.9
98.2

The average was 98.5 gns. The spread among them was .7 gns.

Lot 2:

98.9
97.9
98.5

The average among them was 98.4 gns. The spread was 1.0 gn.

So, I'm not that happy with them. I don't know if, in the real world, the overall extreme spread of 1 gn among the six points means anything (probably not), but the lightest of them is 2.1 gns lighter than advertised; and the average weight is ~ 1.5 gns light.

The practice points are within .4 gns of each other, but still average 2.7 gns heavier than they should be.

Conclusion:

I expect the practice points to group together, but I'll still have to shoot the "real" points to confirm zero-in for hunting season.

A grain and a half lighter hunting tip will move the F.O.C. back a bit, but not significantly.

I don't trust the 97.9 gn blade; I guess I'll shoot it after all other tests and see where it falls.

Harley

[dougedwards]

You won't be able to tell the difference in POI out to 70 yards with that deviance in broadhead weight. But I still weigh my arrows and broadheads and match them up to the nearest even weight that I can. Might be a waste of time but it can't hurt anything.

Doug

[russkull]

I am confused. Did you decide not to switch to 125 grn. heads?

[Harley]

Hey, Russell; look at reply #6, above.

Ok, what I've learned so far is that, at least in my case, stupidity has no upper limit.

I replaced my D-loop, changed nocks radically, then without further ado screwed on one of the practice G5's and shot my first shot at 20 yards. The arrow hit the target a glancing blow and I've been looking for it for the last hour. That's just over $20 down the drain, arrow, nock and blade. Did I learn anything? Probably not.

Harley

[russkull]

...., shoot at 5'!?!?

[Harley]

Like, Duh!

[Harley]

Okay, end of day one with the G5's.

Since my last post I realized one other change I made, and it was a very significant change, probably the reason, indirectly, that I lost my arrow.

I bought a new stabilizer for the Z7, an Axion. It's a very good design, open with two internal vibration dampers and one harmonic damper. I've been impressed that the bow has absolutely no vibration when the stabilizer is in place, but was dissatisfied that the stabilizer was balanced neutrally; i.e., the bow remained upright in my hand after I fired.

This morning I remembered that I have two replacement vibration dampers that are considerably heavier than the ones fitted on the stabilizer, so I substitued. Now, the bow falls forward just the way I wanted.

Here's the kicker: I have been unconsciously squeezing the grip at the shot because I'm not used to the forward action. That in turn torqued the arrow enough that I lost it at 20 yards.

BTW, it was a comment Doug made to Russkull about holding the index finger at 45* that made me aware of what I was doing wrong. Thanks, Doug.

After figuring all this out, I went back to shooting:

1. The dull practice G5's penetrate the target 4-6 inches deeper than the field points of the same weight.
2. The practice G5's group as tightly as field points at 20 yards (the only distance I've shot).
3. The field points and the practice G5's have the same point of impact.
4. Because my inserts are epoxied, I couldn't rotate them to "tune" the broadhead with the Blazer vanes. Although the blades ended up in various degrees relative to the vanes, I didn't see any effect at all.
5. The practice blades would quickly destroy either a target or my Glendale buck; they are too dull to cut as you pull them back out, so they would be either trapped or pull the stuffing out of the target. I've decided to retire them, and shoot the actual broadhead at targets, then re-sharpen them.

So, other than losing an arrow I couldn't have asked for a better result. Esthetically, I've never seen a broadhead as beautifully crafted as this.

Future testing will involve extending my target range.

Harley

[russkull]

Sounds like a great day! Congratulations. Hope mine goes as well tomorrow.

[Harley]

Let us know how it goes. Assuming all is well, what arrow have you settled on?

Harley

[russkull]

I decided on the Easton Axis ST NFused. The archery shop has them at $100/dozen. Cheaper than my carbon max. I don't need them now but at that price I couldn't pass them up. I may not be able to shoot them at all. They may hit knock right, with the stiffer spine. I am going to cut my Carbon Max to length today also.

[dougedwards]

The shorter the arrow, the stiffer the spine will be on that arrow when all other factors are unchanged. Adding weight (FOBs, lighted nocks, longer fletchings) to the end of the arrow will increase spine and adding weight to the tip(brass insert, heavier broadhead) will decrease spine of an arrow. Playing with the spine using these components also alters to the FOC of an arrow.

Doug

[Harley]

I posted the following on another thread, but am including it here, also, as the next step in my evaluation of the G5's:

Today I shot the hunting G5's, and am happy to report they hit consistently where the field points hit. I did miss the entire target with one shot and the broadhead buried about half its length in a Sweet Gum tree. I had to use a hammer and chisel to retrieve it. The good news is it wasn't damaged, and would STILL shave hair on my arm. I'm beginning to love these G5's. If I can ever dull them, I'll try the new sharpener.

Harley

[Harley]

I just shot until failing light at 20 yards with the hunting G5's; when I could call my shots; i.e., know that I did everything correctly, I got ~ 1" groups.

I'm shooting the 60# pound bow set at 50# because it pains me less; if anything, this reduced draw weight should result in a sloppier performance from the bow, but it doesn't seem so.

I can't shoot broadheads into my 30 yard Glendale buck because I don't think I can withdraw them; I'm afraid to shoot them at my 40 yard target because it's over water and the heads cost too much to throw away. Sometime this week I'll try to set up in a field to test at 30, 40 and 50 yards.

Even though they are still sharp after maybe 15 shots each, I'm going to try out the sharpening stone tonight.

Harley

[lunchbox]

what kind of sharpening stone did you get for the G5's?

[Harley]

Lunchbox, I got the sharpening stone that's sold by G5; I think it was $29.95. I'm in the middle of a learning curve with it; spent some time today sharpening my G5 broadheads. It's no trick to get them to the point of cleanly cutting paper, but I'm having trouble making them hair-shaving sharp. I think I just need to practice.

Harley

[deadeye]

harley,i look forward to your report on broadhead sharpening,one bitch i have had on muzzy's & not enough time to pursue the sharpening hobby

[Harley]

Deadeye and lunchbox and anybody else interested in the G5 flat sharpening stone: I've scraped so much hair from my arm with the G5 broadheads that it looks as if it's been licked by a tiger. I'm finally more or less satisfied; what sharpening boils down to is an "art", not a "science". The directions use words like "moderate pressure" and "light pressure" and "3-12 repetitions". What's "light" mean, or "moderate"? I just had to keep on working at it until I got it. I think I can get the points sharper over time, but have every confidence they are sharp enough, right now.

All I have left to do before completely endorsing the G5 is to shoot it at 30-60 yards as a check on "steering".

Harley

[ET]

Harley

Well you got me sold and have a 3-pack of 100grain G5's to try down the road when I'm ready.

Now I need to get a flat Diamond Back stone as seen on the G5 video. ;D

Ed