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Post by deadon on May 1, 2010 5:52:09 GMT -5
Over the past 20 years most of my shots at deer with a rifle from a stand have been between 60 and 168 yards. Three times, I had shots at really nice bucks at between 200 and 300 yards. Problem is that by the time I ranged them, then brought my rifle up it was too late, deer going or gone. Do any of you guys own a scope with built in range finders and how do like them?
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Post by dougedwards on May 1, 2010 9:04:05 GMT -5
I like the scopes with mil dot reticles for long range shooting. The only problem is with most rifle scopes sold in the USA the scope must be on a designated power range to be able to reliably range targets. My Bushnell 6500 4.5-30x must be set at 10x to use the mil dots as a range finding instrument and I usually hunt on the lowest power possible. The upside is that it takes much less time to adjust the scope in magnification than it does to pick up a Leica range finder.
Doug
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Post by rossman40 on May 1, 2010 10:31:11 GMT -5
With mildots you want a First Focal Plane (FFP) reticle which means as the magnification is increased the reticle gets bigger so the divisions remain the same. Use to be if you wanted this type of scope you had to buy a top dollar scope. The new Viper PST line finally brings quality FFP scopes with a price tag that is affordable to a lot more people.
The newer riflescopes with the range finder built-in are becoming a bit more automatic. The new Burris model will automatically adjust the aimpoint. I suspect the Nikon and Bushnell models will follow suite as they are made in the same place.
Then of course there is the Elcan DigitalHunter. It has been around for 5 years and while they have added low light, if they ever add the laser rangefinder it would be a awesome package.
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Post by boarhog on May 1, 2010 13:07:31 GMT -5
I have a Bushnell 800 range finder. It is really only good to 300 yds, or less, unless the target is reflective. What I do, is range to landmarks around my stand. I even have some crib notes on the wall of a couple of stands. My longest shot, so far, was 284 yds. I had previously ranged a tree at 300 yds, and the deer came out just to my side of that tree.
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Post by rossman40 on May 1, 2010 18:45:28 GMT -5
In the Army we call that a range card or if your a FO it is a terrain sketch.
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Post by Al on May 2, 2010 2:59:13 GMT -5
I have a Bushnell 800 range finder. It is really only good to 300 yds, or less, unless the target is reflective. What I do, is range to landmarks around my stand. I even have some crib notes on the wall of a couple of stands. My longest shot, so far, was 284 yds. I had previously ranged a tree at 300 yds, and the deer came out just to my side of that tree. I do the same when I make a stand.
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Post by rossman40 on May 2, 2010 14:25:51 GMT -5
This is a mil-spec official range card, we learned these basic training, You could use a similar format and make the lines like 25 yards. It would give you something to do while waiting and help develop your artistic side. Maybe even get fancy and go more towards a terrain sketch, Probly the quickest way if you have a duplex reticle is just use the subtension method. Think of it as a big mildot. If you know the distance between the thicker parts of the reticle at 100yds at different magnifications it is a piece of cake. Lets say I have a brand "Z" 3X9 scope and at 3X the distance between the thicker parts of the duplex is 36" @ 100yds. I keep the scope on 3X and bring the scope up on the buck and I see this, The chest which is pretty much 18" is about 1/2 the distance or what should be 18" on the scope so the deer is 100yds away. Now lets say he is a good ways out there and I kick the scope up to full magnification and look and see the sight picture above. I know at full magnification my brand "Z" scope is 12" between the thick parts at 100yds when on full mag. So the deers chest that should be 18" covers what is 6" @ 100yds. 6 into 18 is 3 so the buck is 300 yards away.
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Post by deadon on May 2, 2010 16:01:24 GMT -5
Rossman, THAT IS COOL ;D Thank you!!!
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Post by rossman40 on May 8, 2010 11:45:18 GMT -5
The subtense or subtension method is basic survey. Early variable power scopes were set up like that but scope makers have gotten away from it. I think it was Weaver that added a second horizontal stadia line to use for rangefinding on their variable power scopes which Jim Leatherwood took one step farther tying a cam to the power ring.
You can check your subtension on your scope if the scope maker doesn't list it but I would check it anyway just to verifiy.
In the artillery we would measure the distance from the aiming circle to the gun using a subtense bar which was a camouflage netting pole which just happens to be one meter long and the gun crew would put a white stripe on the ends to help. In a bind we even trained to use a M16 as a subtense bar.
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Post by Jon on May 8, 2010 14:17:51 GMT -5
That is interesting. My experiance with a m16 is you should have just used it for a target. Now i know there is a differant use for it. as long as you don't count on it to be reliable it is a great weapon. I would take a m14 any day. Now that is reliable. Jon
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Post by rossman40 on May 9, 2010 20:09:56 GMT -5
You also had to know if it was a M16A1 or a M16A2, the A2 is like 3/4" longer.
I was issued a brand new M16A1 when I got to my guard unit and had the same rifle for 15yrs. While I only put maybe 5000rds at the most thru it over that time it never failed me. Maybe not true combat but dragging it thru NTC and then a live fire or running thru a movement to contact exercise like 8 times in one day (90 rounds each time). Used the A2 a few times but overall liked the A1 better.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on May 9, 2010 21:53:48 GMT -5
For the average hunter that takes high percentage shots only using common equipment, nothing beats a simple range finders and taking "landmark" shots before game arrives.
Whether a bow or ML or rifle, this is good. Many times I have shot deer with the bow when the range finder had long been put away after marking several spots. With the ML, things are even easier because a MPBR of over 200 yds takes the guesswork out of it for me and anything past 250 requires a solid bench rest that I rarely get from a hang on stand and a shooting stick.
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Post by dannoboone on Jun 29, 2010 16:00:18 GMT -5
Whatever happened to Springfield's (Armory?) great looking range finding scope? It had built-in range finding in the lower left or right. Seems like it was around $750 back in the early '90's. Told myself, "When I can afford it, one of those is going on a rifle." Well, the affording came, but the scope on the market went!
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Post by rossman40 on Jun 29, 2010 22:10:39 GMT -5
The Springfield Armory scopes were made by Hakko and Hakko just assembled pieces. The problem with Hakko was spotty QC. They would show you a good pre-production prototype but when it came to production the parts and sub-assemblies started coming from Korea and China and when they found it cheaper they would change. Hakko made Colt, Smith & Wesson and the Springfield Armory models just to name a few, somebody told me they also did some of the Millets. They were capable of producing a good scope and sometimes did,.there were just so many returns Springfield Armory finally dropped optics. You still run across them on ebay and gunbroker. Supposedly Hakko got busted over export license violations of night vision equipment and the US Commerce Department hit them with a heavy fine and banned them from exporting (from the US) for 5 years. The drawed out the appeal process as long as they could and in 2004 closed the doors and came back as Japan Optics Ltd. to get past the export ban (only the names are changed to protect the innocent). They still have a booth at the SHOT show (at least in 2009)
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Post by stanb8 on Oct 31, 2016 13:30:21 GMT -5
I have a burris eliminator on my rem/brux and enjoy the one button push for range and shot location. Still nothing beats practice, I work 60 to 78 hrs. a week and have very little time for to practice. The longest shot on deer with it was last year at 20 yards.
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