My question: If the materials used is heavier than lead would an ounce of lead pellets of No. 4 size have more pellets than an ounce of heavier than lead pellets of same size? To me it seems reasonable. If so, then using heavier than lead pellets would decrease the pellet number per ounce. I wonder if one might offset the other.
ozark I've wondered the same thing. I shoot Federal 3 in 2oz copper plated #6. Ive looked at the heavier than lead and haven't found any 2 oz. loads. So I would be loosing even more pellets. Unless I'm not looking at it right. 161
I have just cut and emptied pellets from (heavier than lead) No. 5, 1 1/4 Oz. and also the pellets from a Winchester Suupreme No.5, 1 1/4 Oz. with the idea of counting pellets to get the answer to my question. What I discovered erased any need to count pellets. I found the HEVI-SHOT a mixture of sizes and shapes, some double the size of others, some were stuck permanently together, others were one of normal size with a tiny round one sticking out from it. Some were not even close to round and badly misshaped. The box said: World record performance. I concluded that the only test would be to pattern them side by side. The Winchester Supreme were copper coated, appeared to be perfectly round and uniform in size. I was disappointed to find the HEVI shot a dukes mixture of shapes and sizes. They may out perform the Winchester Supreme but I am guessing they will not. I will try them soon on paper. If you have some HEVI SHOT open them to expose the pellets and you will quickly see that whatever they do uniformity stinks. I will not shoot them at Turkey until I have proven them on paper. Personally, I think we have been had.
When Hevi shot first came out it was noted that they should not pattern well because they are not round or even the same size. Except they do and they historically won many of the shotgun turkey shoots.
Then someone analyzed the golf ball and the baseball. They put little dimples in the golf ball so the air does not 'pile' up in front and cause it to veer off course. Very similar application is the knuckle ball pitch. No rotation on the ball, the catcher needs a larger glove, and batters swing at air.
I think the final word on the stuff was because it is so hard it will not deform down the barrel. And the deformed pellets are what wrecks the pattern. Later improved heavi shot is said to be more uniform.
Waterfowlers use a shot called 'Black Cloud' strange shaped pellets, but Buddies that hunt ducks love the stuff.
The word uniform and the Hevi Shot I emptied from a shell case today don't belong to the same meaning. What I took out looked more like shrapnel than uniform pellets. They are labeled as No. 5 but although not close to round would be somewhere between a size No. 4 and a size 10. Terrible. Some will obviously sail like a Frisbee when they leave the muzzle. One thing for sure, they will not be ruined by traveling down the barrel. I will be shocked if they come even close to a No. 5 Supreme. But when I get a chance I will test them side by side on paper. Whoever seen a comparison between these and the dimples on a golf ball has a great imagination. More like fine crushed gravel.
Is shot gun pellets measure by weighed OZ or volume/fluid OZ like water? I have used Heavy shot and it patterend well. but it didnt like the new choke i put on and the Win. supreme did better but it was 2nd in the bunch i tried.
Ozark. since you pulled one open did you weigh the pellets? get a count? and can you compare it to one other brand that you have tried?
Whyohe, I didn't count or weigh the pellets. I seen on use in doing so. Understand that many of the globs in the mixture could not be classified as a pellet. Just misshaped slag of wierd shapes. Some were so tiny they would be more like No 20 shot. Some were like welded together. Like a No. 5 size welded to a No. 10 size. If the pattern on paper it will look like someone has thrown a hand full of crushed gravel and dirt at the target. Let me see, how do I describe this me. Most all have irregular shapes, sharp edges, and rang in size to pin head to No. 4 shot gun pellets. If lead scatters due to being deformed going down the barrel these will sail here and there due to being pre deformed. Maybe I got some where they had swept up the floor and loaded the culls.
Yesterday I compared the No. 4 HEVI SHOT against the Winchester Supreme N. 4s. Both had 1 1/4 Oz of shot in my 20 Ga. The distance was 34 yards and examination of the target didn't show that one was better or worse than the other. I was surprised the HEVI Shot appeared to make the same size hole rather than a mixture of sizes. Both were fine turkey loads and both penetrated through a normal thicknes of a national geographic magazine. With my simple test I would say either way would be fine.
I have never opened a hevi shot load. Just know that it patterns well in my shotgun. I have to take the word of others as to pellet shape. I have also heard they will out penetrate regular lead. I never bothered with that, how much do you need to penetrate a turkey's head?
My experiment resulted in convincing me that either should work fine. Penetration? If you want to send pellets through a National Geographic magazine you need enough to do the job. If it is a turkey head I would guess less than half that would be needed. I believe all the turkey loads sold over the counter are adaquate to kill the birds at normal ranges. Naturally, if you use a 10 Ga. sending a lot more pellets down range your chance of making a kill farther increases. I use a range finder to determine the distance to objects around my set up. Knowing these, I prepare myself mentally to wait until the bird is between me and some object I have identified as within range and I know I am fine. Guessing is not all that accurate for me.
Post by artjr338wm on May 11, 2010 18:21:54 GMT -5
I can offer a slightly differing experience. For years and years I shot only Winchester 12ga 3.5' 2oz of #4s Supreme Turkey loads out of my 12ga 3.5" 870. I chose the Winchesters after a SbS comparison of them along with Remington's, Federal and Active lead shot specialty turkey loads that included patterning out to 60yrds and opening up and doing a pellet count.
I gotta say if you plan on shooting more than 3-5 12ga 3.5" 2oz magnum turkey loads you have to have some form of a recoil absorbing rest to do so or the recoil will have you wearing your a$$ for a hat after about 5-7 shots.
I used a Remington Xtra full turkey choke for use with lead shot. In the end hands down the Winchester Supreme Turkey loads patterned best out of my 870 and were also the most uniformly round shot.
When Winchester came out with there heavier than lead turkey loads I again did a side by side comparison of them along with Remington's new heavier than lead turkey loads. I am the exception here because the shells I took apart from both Remington and Winchester both contained pellets that were extremely uniform in shape and had very, very few deformed or out of round pellets.
I patterned them both again out to 60yrds and used my old stand buys the copper plated lead Winchester Supreme turkey loads as a comparison bench mark.
Again the Winchesters patterned best, but only edged out the Remington's by a slight margin, and did pattern just enough better than the original lead Winchester turkey loads for me to chose the Winchester heavier than lead loads over them.
I got extremely lucky one day after IN turkey season closed when I walked into my local Gander Mtn and they had Winchester heavier than lead turkey loads in 12ga 3.5" 2oz of #4s on sale for $23.99 per box of 10. I bought every box they had.
To be brutally honest though, with them now costing over $30 per box of 10 and some times waaaay over, once I go through my present stock I will most likely go back to the copper plated lead Winchester Supreme turkey shells as I can still get them for around $14 per box of 10 and they shoot extremely well out of my 12ga 3.5" 870.