saved but??????????

[ozark]

There are those who say once saved always saved. Then by killing yourself you have broken a commandment as a last act with no time to seek forgivness or to repent. I don't know the answer and doubt anyone else is positive about the answer. Sounds to me like you are fishing for a long discussion about religion. If so I am sure that you will get countless opinions. My opinion is that I don't know.

[deadon]

What about "forgive me father for I know not what I do"? ozark, I am not fishing My graddfather killed himself when I was 16 and I hope to see him again

[dougedwards]

My response to your question would be that I don't know. But I do know that people have physical limitations including fluctuating amounts of chemicals that are necessary for brain functions. There are about 130 chemicals that operate within the brain and modern medicine is not sure what about 100 of them even do.

Sometimes people hit low spots in their lives that are not initiated by normally stressful events. Sometimes these low periods in life last for some time and lead into a depression like state of being. It is very unnatural that someone would want to go against their natural survival instincts to put an end to their life but it does happen. I have had two good friends who chose to end their lives prematurely and one of them was one of the most faithful and humble men that I have ever known.

Somehow I have to believe that God takes our physical deficiencies into account. After reading Psalms and the Samuels I an inclined to believe that King David suffered from a bipolar condition.

Of course there is more to the conditions that lead to suicide than I have expressed here but I tend to believe that God is larger than our physical and mental limitations and shortcomings. Didn't Christ die for all of the sins that people commit? It is an interesting question that you ask. My only reasonable response can be that I pray that my friends are with Jesus.

Doug

[ozark]

Deadon, I had an uncle who took his own life and a brother that many thought he drink some anti-freeze knowing what the results would be. From personal experience I an very much aware that more and more I am becoming a burden to those I love. I also accept that I will become more so as time passes. It is very depressing to accept that you can't do hardly anything without help. Especially when all your life you have been the one to lean on and a person who jumped to take care of things. If it isn't one thing ailing it is another. Right now it is a bout with gout which is painful and renders one close to helplessness. I am not sucidial or contemplating that course. But, I do find it hard to accept that it is only going to get worse. I am sure The Almighty God understands our limitations and accepts things that we don't understand. A pain that cannot be relieved, or a condition like Cancer that is certain to kill you soon makes the case of ending it all understandable. In my earlier post I stated that I didn't know the answer and doubted if anyone else knew. I am willing to let God be the Judge. I see him as all knowing, all understanding and regardless of what is written in the Bible He has the right to decide or change any passage that He deems appropriate. If it is Gods will you will see your Grandfather. That I believe totally because to me He is the one in charge. We read the scriptures, but we are far to dumb to know precisely which means what. I accept in letting God steer the ship. Should I try we would all be in danger.
There may well be justifiable sucicide. I can look at the negatives and truthfully say: My ability to repair things, take a stroll in the woods, fish the streams, chase the deer and turkeys, use a mower, weed eater, chain say, skill saw, dig gensing, walk around in the house, get into bed without help, take a bath without help plus a dozen other things I took for granted through the years. But I cannot be happy dwelling on what I cannot do. I can read, use this forum, tell a few jokes and still find enough pain killers to be free of pain mostly. So from my position I can see justifiable sucicide in some cases. Now for the joke:
This older couple learned that if they eat a certain muffin daily they would live longer. Eventually they died and went to heaven. It was so perfect, so beautiful and so wonderful. The man looked at his wife and said:"You and those darn muffens, we could have been here ten years ago if you had just not interferred."

[petev]

I believe that if you killed yourself because of circumstances beyond your control, and also beyond a normal (meaning average) person's ability to cope with, that God would probably understand. For example, a painful terminal disease. On the other hand, if someone kills themself because they are just giving up, then to me that would mean that they don't have strong faith (in God), and God would act as it says in the Bible somewhere, and deny you entry to heaven. These are my thoughts only. Deadon, if you want a professional answer would you consider asking this question to a priest or minister?

[wilmsmeyer]

What a morbid discussion. However, humans ponder this as they watch suffering or suffer themselves.

I have always been skeptical of religion...even though I was raised and confirmed a methodist. Even though...... I still wonder about these things.

Will I push up daisies or be in some eternal state of bliss? The former rings my logical bell while the latter goes beyond my human reasoning train of thought.

The thought of "you don't know until it happenes" keeps me scared while the reasoning of "we are all biological dirt" tugs at me.

If there is a higher being, my logical mind tells me that my indecision will be OK...for if I were created, the creator will understand my thinking...for I have been programmed as such by the powers that be to think about these things in this manner.

Religion is strange...as dissected by a human. We are educated to understand life and death as a cycle of the earth and also educated to "just believe" in something else. It's confusing and illogical to "just accept" something as true without proof.

Deadon....I have no wisdom here...no answer to your question. No one does. Suicide, IMO can be completely cowardly or it can be a way to speed up the inevitable. A major deciding factor to me is how it affects the people you leave behind. Will they understand and even support it or will they be left scratching there heads, mourning a horrible loss, wondering why their loved one gave up?

IMO, one has to ask that question because all we really know, and can understand, is that those left living are left with a terrible pain with our departure.

[huntingmike]

Romans 8:38
I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present,nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In this passage death is covered also anything that is to come is covered. If we truly become the children of God in this life he will not deny us in death.
" To live is for Christ to die is to gain." I will live for him to my last breath but I will not regret when I breath no more.
Rev. Mike

[deadon]

Hey guys, It seems I have caused another frucas and I am sorry. I don't know if I am the only member here who has thought about suicide but I feel I am in the right place . Let me explain. When I was in college I read a novel by William Falkner. I studied his writing for several months and one of the things he said that has stuck with me for years is " All we are is the sum total of all our experiences" Now maybe I have been wrong but since then I have tried to mentally walk myself through every possible experience I could think of. If you have been through it , maybe you can handle it better. Mentally experiencing something is no where near like living it but I hoped it would prepare me better than doing nothing. My grandfather shot himself many years ago and My best friend hanged himself about 10 years ago,. I now believe I will see both of them someday By asking this question, I was just trying to cover all the bases. Thanks to all and again if I have caused a problem I am sorry.

[ozark]

I for one don't believe you have created a problem. I think it is good for us to reach a decision on all matters of life here and the hereafter. Certainly, I will not be the judge.

[dougedwards]

Men seek answers to questions yet we become disturbed when the answers escape us. Sometimes it is the answer to a question that instigates an uneasiness within our spirit. Sometimes answers only provoke other endless questions.

"If God is creater of all things and God is all righteous then where did evil come from?" This question is as old as human thought but today remains unanswered. Somehow within our humanity we tend to make assessments based on what we don't know. "I cannot see God therefore He does not exist". There is a conflict between what man can detect with his measily five senses and a reality that escapes him. Rational western thought says that we will only be pushing up daisies when we die. Yet there seems to be a spiritual awareness within us all to refute that hopeless idea.

One of my very favorite passages from the Holy Scriptures:

18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

26Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord"

[petev]

I find your posts interesting deadon, in my opinion.

[petev]

There've been a couple of posts concerning believing. Wilms, I think that the existence of God cannot be proven or disproven using logic. So, someone who insists that everything have a logical explanation, would have a problem believing in God, most likely. I see many people's faith, including my own, resulting from a deductive type of reasoning. If you have problems in your life, or do not feel comfortable about the direction you are heading in, and feel not completely able to fix or change it, and you ask God for help, and then you see everything change for the better, and then you do that a number of times, then it develops faith in many of us that went through that, and that faith can also grow over time. As far as once saved always saved, Christ in the Bible, says that you need to keep vigilant of keeping your faith, lest you be caught unawares when the second coming happens. One thing that has turned me back toward the Bible and belief lately, is the business that I am in, where there is a lot of deceit and greed, and it makes me feel like I might become one of them, unless I work on not going down that road. The Bible gives me strength, but also Jesus's stories I find to be excellent guides on how to handle everyday situations. Just my two cents, but I feel that I have benefited enough from my belief, which has by no means always been consistent, that I wanted to share those two cents with others.

[whyohe]

ruckus??? no you are making us think, keeping the brain cells active. there are many beleifs on this board so you may get some different answers. I dont beleave once saved always saved. if this where the case then judas would still be saved correct? was he not with Jesus as an apostle till the end?
also Heb 10:26,27 "if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgement,...
Matt. 24: 13 he who endures to the END will be saved.
so we see that a persons salvation is not determined at the moment he puts faith in Jesus. also we can see in hebrews that there will be a judgement to thoes who have sinned.

IMO did not Jesus come to earth not to just give his perfect life as a sacrifice but to also experiance life on earth to get a better understanding so he can better make thoes judgements. we do not fully know what was in a mans heart or mind at the time a person made that choice. could there have been drug reactions, mental conditions? we cannot read the heart or mind but GOD and Jesus can. let them be the judge not us.

[12ptdroptine]

the question is Saved but? I believe that in all ways God will ease my pain as he see's to. " Thy will be done" Now......not saved? I dont know the answer to that one.

[ozark]

Among those who are sincerely seeking the truth are many bent on convincing others that their position is correct. Is it not logical to wonder if those striving to convince others are somewhat in doubt about their own position? For those who know the truth there isn't room for doubts.

[deadon]

DEAD ON,ozark and thanks to everyone for your opinion.

[kudzu]

This one I have thought about deeply, being as my father took his own life about 12 years ago. I know my dad was saved. I also know that satan will cause havic in ones life. and will hit you at your weakest point. many saved people deal with very real problems, alcohol, drugs, depression, etc..
My belief is that once you are a child of God you are a Child of God forever. There is only one unforgivable sin. And the question of one leaving here with unconfessed sin - my answer is we are all sinners saved by Gods Amasing Grace. We all sin daily ( to God there is no level of Sin) , and if the rapture took place before we had a chance one day to say our nighltlly prayers I do not believe we would be dumed for Hell for that one bad thought or act.
Never underestimate Satans power on ones life, however I read the back page. As a child of God We will be winners. GOD NEVER PROMISED SMOOTH SAILING JUST A SAFE LANDING

God Bless Danny