200yrd TMZ/Spitfire range results
Mar 15, 2010 22:16:59 GMT -5
Post by artjr338wm on Mar 15, 2010 22:16:59 GMT -5
THIS IS JUST A TEST BY ME BY POSTING BY CUT & PAISTING.
Well after waiting a painfully long time for it to occur, the weather and sufficient time finally coincided and gifted me the opportunity to go to my favorite range and finish my accuracy evaluation of Barnes all copper 290grn TMZs and 245grn Spitfires. I will not only include the data from my latest shooting session, but my groups sizes and data from all my past sessions of the last 2 years. Now on to the important stuff.
<>10ML-II .50 caliber in stainless steel with laminated wood stock, W/Accutrigger .
Action glass bedded, third action screw installed
Breach plug MOD W/DB insert FH-BTW .032" & .033"
Weaver GS in 4.5-14x40mm set in Warne nickle rings and bases.
Have owned my 10ML-II for 5+ years and 550-600 shots.
<>Modifications I did to both TMZs and Spitfires:
I found through my testing and shooting that the best way to get the boat tailed, Barnes all copper TMZs and Spitfires to shoot well if not exceptionally so was not just to knurl them, but to knurl them up as large as I could and depending on which sabot I used, still get them to fit and load in my 10ML-II.
245 Spitfires:
This meant knurling the 245grn Spitfires up from their factory size of .450-.4505" to the largest OD I could consistently achieve of .4535". I could get some knurled up to .454", but not enough to be able to consider a .454" a consistently achievable OD, as this turned out a Spitfire OD of .4535 worked exceptionally well, but more on that later.
290 TMZ:
I could however consistently get the 290grn TMZs to knurl up to BTW .454 and .4545".
This required I use as much force while knurling as I felt I could with out breaking my file.
I suspect the reasion I could get the 290 TMZs to knurl larger was strictly caused by their larger bearing surface that is a result of them being simply a longer bullet than the 245grn Spitfire.
One thing I do is to always test at home any bullet/sabot combo(s) prior to taking it to the range to determine if I felt based on how tightly it loaded, weather or not it would shoot well. I am 1000% certain that only bullet/sabot combos that load extremely tight will shoot to with in acceptable levels of accuracy. I define extremely tight as requiring just short of a maximum effort on my part to load it and still be able to load it while in the field. This testing at home is how I stumbled onto start once agin using the factory supplied sabot that came with my Spitfires and TMZs. As I have stated in my last post on TMZs and Spitfire load development, I was using a new after market sabot for Barnes BT bullets made by Harvester, and it worked quite well. After I knurled my last batch of TMZs and Spitfires I was trying out a few of each to see how tightly they loaded. It then dawned on me that a member here had said he (wilmeyre) enjoyed great success with using the factory supplied sabot and I did have them in large #s so I gave them a try. They ended up giving me a perfect feeling tight fit with the 245 Spitfires, but were just to tight for the 290 TMZs. So I decided to give them a try with my MOD/Spitfires at this range session.
<>Things that were the same for every load every time shot:
*All sabots oriented/ none trimmed/ time wait BTW shots 5 min till barrel cool to touch
*Used same IBSCM of:1-1.5" patch soaked in act clnr run up and dwn barrel 1x ea & discard/then one dry patch up & dwn bore 1x and discarded
*Used same loading PRCDR of #1-pour powder/#2 smack recoil pad 2x hard on note book on ground/#3-place bullet in sabot and using all brass short starter start bullet/sabot. Short starter has both Barnes bullet aligned and muzzle protector.
*Using 1-piece brass RR fitted with Spinjag and bore guide/protector finish seating bullet/sabot on powder and once there compress heavily for 1001-1003 count.
<>Range conditions: Near perfect. At 8:am temp 28*/wind 0-5mph/sunny/humidity 33%
When I left conditions same except temp & humidity was now in mid 40% & 40*s.
<>LOAD #1- SHOT on 03/06/2010:
290 grain all copper TMZ knurled up to .454-.4545"
75 grains of RL-10X all DBL check W/RCBS 1010- BB scale
Federal 209A primer
Harvester AFT/MKT YEL/CR sabot for use only W/Barnes BT bullets.
I’m guessing MV at 2450fps
Fired one of the above loads as a fouler and began test firing.
3-shot 200yrd group #1-1.0" C-C, WOW! What a way to start off shooting!
3-shot 200yrd group #2-2.887" C-C
3-shot 200yrd group #3-2.656" C-C
5-shot 200yrd group #1-2.379" C-C This is a continuation of group #1
200yrd group average of 2.230" or just a hair shy of 2.25"
<>Load #2- Shot on 03/06/2010
245 grain all copper Spitfire knurled up to .453"
76 grains of Hodgdon H-4198
Federal 209A primer
Factory supplied yellow sabot. This is the sabot made for Knight/Barnes by Harvester that came with the Spitfires and TMZs.
I’m guessing MV of 2650fps.
3-shot 200yrd group#1-1.896" C-C
3-shot 200yrd group #2-2.826" C-C
3-shot 200yrd group #3-2.416" C-C
200yrd group average of 2.379" C-C
<>290grn TMZ 100 and 200yrd all groups to date from newest to oldest:
All 290 TMZ 100 yard 3-shot groups W/knurled OD
100yrd 3-shot @ .455" knurled OD of .453" MY BEST EVER W/ANY ML GROUP
100yrd 3-shot @ .940" knurled OD of .4545"
100yrd 5-shot @ 1.75" knurled OD of .453" MY LARGEST 100YRD GROUP
100yrd 3-shot @ .639" knurled OD of .4545"
100yrd 3-shot @ 1.134" knurled OD UK
All 290 TMZ 200 yard 3,4 &5 shot groups to date newest to oldest W/OD
200yrd 3-shot @ 1.0" knurled OD of .4545"
200yrd 3-shot @ 2.887" knurled OD of .4545" MY LARGEST 200YRD GROUP
200yrd 3-shot @ 2.656" knurled OD of .4545"
200yrd 5-shot @ 2.379" knurled OD of .4545"
200yrd 3-shot @ 2.263" knurled OD of .454"
200yrd 3-shot @ 1.71" knurled OD of .4545"
200yrd 5-shot @ 2.346" knurled OD of .4545"
200yrd 3-shot @ .775" knurled OD of .4545" MY BEST 200YRD 290 TMZ 3-SHOT GROUP
<>TOTAL FOR ALL 100YRD 290 TMZ GROUPS: .9836"
<>TOTAL FOR ALL 200YRD 290 TMZ GROUPS: 1.990 OR 2.0"
<>245grn Spitfire 100 and 200yrd all groups to date from newest to oldest:
All 245 Spitfires 100 yard 3 & 5 shot groups W/OD
100yrd 3-shot @ 1.03" OD .453"
100yrd 3-shot @ .990" OD .453"
100yrd 3-shot @ .763" OD .453
100yrd 4-shot @ 1.755" OD .453" don’t know what happen W/this group
100yrd 3-shot @ .689" OD .453" MY BEST 100YRD GROUP W/SFs
All 245grn Spitfire 200yrd 3-shot groups W/OD
200yrd @1.837" knurled OD .453" MY BEST 200YRD GROUP W/SFs
200yrd @ 2.826" knurled OD .453"
200yrd @2.416" knurled OD .453"
200yrd @ 2.562" knurled OD .453
200yrd @ 3.10 “ knurled OD UK
<>TOTAL FOR ALL 100YRD 245 SF GROUPS: 1.05"
<>TOATL FOR ALL 200YRD 245 SF GROUPS: 2.54"
I would also like to say these are not all the groups I fired using 290/TMZs and 245/Spitfires. I have quite a few other 100yrd groups and a even few 200yrd groups I did not include because they were all shot with TMZ and Spitfires back when I first tried them with barely any knurling or some with none at all. And trust me when I say there is a world of difference between them in terms of accuracy.
But I feel that I have fired enough 100 and 200yrds groups to have sufficient data to be able to state with complete confidence that if you can get a tight enough fit in your 10ML-II with TMZs or Spitfires they should shoot to a level of accuracy that is more than acceptable for hunting and taking shots out to 200 yards or less. But based on some of the wildly varying groups I got, I don’t know if I would trust them to beyond 200yrds.
I need to add a few updates to my data and opinions I listed in my last post on these bullets. Earlier I said I felt that the new Harvester Yellow CR sabot for use with all copper BT bullets made a huge difference in my accuracy. Based on the results of my last range session, I must now reconsider that statement as 100% accurate. It is still true with the 290/TMZs but absolutely not so with the 245/Sfs. And I think if I play around with the knurling a bit to get the 290/TMZs down to say around .453 consistently I might get just as good as results with the Knight/Harvester non-CR factory supplied sabot as I did with the after market Harvester YEL/CR sabot. I also have a few of the new blue E-Z loading sabots made for Barnes by Harvester for use with BT bullets that I will give a try with my 290/TMZs that I have knurled up to .4545" and see what happens.
Unless I feel I am likely to encounter ranges beyond 200 or so yards, I will hunt using either the 290/TMZs or 245/Sfs, depending on what I end up liking best. I know they both have proven they kill deer DRT. I would like to say once again it is not my intension that anyone reading this should now feel compelled to go out and invest their hard earned $$$ and buy a bunch of Barnes all copper TMZs or Spitfires, that was not this reports purpose at all. I just wanted to let any one else like me who has bought them by the dozen or like me, the 100s, that they can be made to shoot well out of your 10ML-II and list how I went about doing so.
If anyone is considering investing their $$$ in buying all copper Barnes Bullets, I strongly advise you only buy the newer flat based ones and avoid the boat tailed version at al costs. If you buy the new flat based ones IIRC they are called the T-MZs(?) you will be able to if necessary, try different sabots to get them to shoot well. Not the case with my Boat tailed types.
If anyone reading this has any questions, please by all means ask, I posted this to help others, not seeking compliments or to feed my ego. I will post the targets from my last range session in additional replies to this post.
Hope this is helpful to someone.
Arthur.
Well after waiting a painfully long time for it to occur, the weather and sufficient time finally coincided and gifted me the opportunity to go to my favorite range and finish my accuracy evaluation of Barnes all copper 290grn TMZs and 245grn Spitfires. I will not only include the data from my latest shooting session, but my groups sizes and data from all my past sessions of the last 2 years. Now on to the important stuff.
<>10ML-II .50 caliber in stainless steel with laminated wood stock, W/Accutrigger .
Action glass bedded, third action screw installed
Breach plug MOD W/DB insert FH-BTW .032" & .033"
Weaver GS in 4.5-14x40mm set in Warne nickle rings and bases.
Have owned my 10ML-II for 5+ years and 550-600 shots.
<>Modifications I did to both TMZs and Spitfires:
I found through my testing and shooting that the best way to get the boat tailed, Barnes all copper TMZs and Spitfires to shoot well if not exceptionally so was not just to knurl them, but to knurl them up as large as I could and depending on which sabot I used, still get them to fit and load in my 10ML-II.
245 Spitfires:
This meant knurling the 245grn Spitfires up from their factory size of .450-.4505" to the largest OD I could consistently achieve of .4535". I could get some knurled up to .454", but not enough to be able to consider a .454" a consistently achievable OD, as this turned out a Spitfire OD of .4535 worked exceptionally well, but more on that later.
290 TMZ:
I could however consistently get the 290grn TMZs to knurl up to BTW .454 and .4545".
This required I use as much force while knurling as I felt I could with out breaking my file.
I suspect the reasion I could get the 290 TMZs to knurl larger was strictly caused by their larger bearing surface that is a result of them being simply a longer bullet than the 245grn Spitfire.
One thing I do is to always test at home any bullet/sabot combo(s) prior to taking it to the range to determine if I felt based on how tightly it loaded, weather or not it would shoot well. I am 1000% certain that only bullet/sabot combos that load extremely tight will shoot to with in acceptable levels of accuracy. I define extremely tight as requiring just short of a maximum effort on my part to load it and still be able to load it while in the field. This testing at home is how I stumbled onto start once agin using the factory supplied sabot that came with my Spitfires and TMZs. As I have stated in my last post on TMZs and Spitfire load development, I was using a new after market sabot for Barnes BT bullets made by Harvester, and it worked quite well. After I knurled my last batch of TMZs and Spitfires I was trying out a few of each to see how tightly they loaded. It then dawned on me that a member here had said he (wilmeyre) enjoyed great success with using the factory supplied sabot and I did have them in large #s so I gave them a try. They ended up giving me a perfect feeling tight fit with the 245 Spitfires, but were just to tight for the 290 TMZs. So I decided to give them a try with my MOD/Spitfires at this range session.
<>Things that were the same for every load every time shot:
*All sabots oriented/ none trimmed/ time wait BTW shots 5 min till barrel cool to touch
*Used same IBSCM of:1-1.5" patch soaked in act clnr run up and dwn barrel 1x ea & discard/then one dry patch up & dwn bore 1x and discarded
*Used same loading PRCDR of #1-pour powder/#2 smack recoil pad 2x hard on note book on ground/#3-place bullet in sabot and using all brass short starter start bullet/sabot. Short starter has both Barnes bullet aligned and muzzle protector.
*Using 1-piece brass RR fitted with Spinjag and bore guide/protector finish seating bullet/sabot on powder and once there compress heavily for 1001-1003 count.
<>Range conditions: Near perfect. At 8:am temp 28*/wind 0-5mph/sunny/humidity 33%
When I left conditions same except temp & humidity was now in mid 40% & 40*s.
<>LOAD #1- SHOT on 03/06/2010:
290 grain all copper TMZ knurled up to .454-.4545"
75 grains of RL-10X all DBL check W/RCBS 1010- BB scale
Federal 209A primer
Harvester AFT/MKT YEL/CR sabot for use only W/Barnes BT bullets.
I’m guessing MV at 2450fps
Fired one of the above loads as a fouler and began test firing.
3-shot 200yrd group #1-1.0" C-C, WOW! What a way to start off shooting!
3-shot 200yrd group #2-2.887" C-C
3-shot 200yrd group #3-2.656" C-C
5-shot 200yrd group #1-2.379" C-C This is a continuation of group #1
200yrd group average of 2.230" or just a hair shy of 2.25"
<>Load #2- Shot on 03/06/2010
245 grain all copper Spitfire knurled up to .453"
76 grains of Hodgdon H-4198
Federal 209A primer
Factory supplied yellow sabot. This is the sabot made for Knight/Barnes by Harvester that came with the Spitfires and TMZs.
I’m guessing MV of 2650fps.
3-shot 200yrd group#1-1.896" C-C
3-shot 200yrd group #2-2.826" C-C
3-shot 200yrd group #3-2.416" C-C
200yrd group average of 2.379" C-C
<>290grn TMZ 100 and 200yrd all groups to date from newest to oldest:
All 290 TMZ 100 yard 3-shot groups W/knurled OD
100yrd 3-shot @ .455" knurled OD of .453" MY BEST EVER W/ANY ML GROUP
100yrd 3-shot @ .940" knurled OD of .4545"
100yrd 5-shot @ 1.75" knurled OD of .453" MY LARGEST 100YRD GROUP
100yrd 3-shot @ .639" knurled OD of .4545"
100yrd 3-shot @ 1.134" knurled OD UK
All 290 TMZ 200 yard 3,4 &5 shot groups to date newest to oldest W/OD
200yrd 3-shot @ 1.0" knurled OD of .4545"
200yrd 3-shot @ 2.887" knurled OD of .4545" MY LARGEST 200YRD GROUP
200yrd 3-shot @ 2.656" knurled OD of .4545"
200yrd 5-shot @ 2.379" knurled OD of .4545"
200yrd 3-shot @ 2.263" knurled OD of .454"
200yrd 3-shot @ 1.71" knurled OD of .4545"
200yrd 5-shot @ 2.346" knurled OD of .4545"
200yrd 3-shot @ .775" knurled OD of .4545" MY BEST 200YRD 290 TMZ 3-SHOT GROUP
<>TOTAL FOR ALL 100YRD 290 TMZ GROUPS: .9836"
<>TOTAL FOR ALL 200YRD 290 TMZ GROUPS: 1.990 OR 2.0"
<>245grn Spitfire 100 and 200yrd all groups to date from newest to oldest:
All 245 Spitfires 100 yard 3 & 5 shot groups W/OD
100yrd 3-shot @ 1.03" OD .453"
100yrd 3-shot @ .990" OD .453"
100yrd 3-shot @ .763" OD .453
100yrd 4-shot @ 1.755" OD .453" don’t know what happen W/this group
100yrd 3-shot @ .689" OD .453" MY BEST 100YRD GROUP W/SFs
All 245grn Spitfire 200yrd 3-shot groups W/OD
200yrd @1.837" knurled OD .453" MY BEST 200YRD GROUP W/SFs
200yrd @ 2.826" knurled OD .453"
200yrd @2.416" knurled OD .453"
200yrd @ 2.562" knurled OD .453
200yrd @ 3.10 “ knurled OD UK
<>TOTAL FOR ALL 100YRD 245 SF GROUPS: 1.05"
<>TOATL FOR ALL 200YRD 245 SF GROUPS: 2.54"
I would also like to say these are not all the groups I fired using 290/TMZs and 245/Spitfires. I have quite a few other 100yrd groups and a even few 200yrd groups I did not include because they were all shot with TMZ and Spitfires back when I first tried them with barely any knurling or some with none at all. And trust me when I say there is a world of difference between them in terms of accuracy.
But I feel that I have fired enough 100 and 200yrds groups to have sufficient data to be able to state with complete confidence that if you can get a tight enough fit in your 10ML-II with TMZs or Spitfires they should shoot to a level of accuracy that is more than acceptable for hunting and taking shots out to 200 yards or less. But based on some of the wildly varying groups I got, I don’t know if I would trust them to beyond 200yrds.
I need to add a few updates to my data and opinions I listed in my last post on these bullets. Earlier I said I felt that the new Harvester Yellow CR sabot for use with all copper BT bullets made a huge difference in my accuracy. Based on the results of my last range session, I must now reconsider that statement as 100% accurate. It is still true with the 290/TMZs but absolutely not so with the 245/Sfs. And I think if I play around with the knurling a bit to get the 290/TMZs down to say around .453 consistently I might get just as good as results with the Knight/Harvester non-CR factory supplied sabot as I did with the after market Harvester YEL/CR sabot. I also have a few of the new blue E-Z loading sabots made for Barnes by Harvester for use with BT bullets that I will give a try with my 290/TMZs that I have knurled up to .4545" and see what happens.
Unless I feel I am likely to encounter ranges beyond 200 or so yards, I will hunt using either the 290/TMZs or 245/Sfs, depending on what I end up liking best. I know they both have proven they kill deer DRT. I would like to say once again it is not my intension that anyone reading this should now feel compelled to go out and invest their hard earned $$$ and buy a bunch of Barnes all copper TMZs or Spitfires, that was not this reports purpose at all. I just wanted to let any one else like me who has bought them by the dozen or like me, the 100s, that they can be made to shoot well out of your 10ML-II and list how I went about doing so.
If anyone is considering investing their $$$ in buying all copper Barnes Bullets, I strongly advise you only buy the newer flat based ones and avoid the boat tailed version at al costs. If you buy the new flat based ones IIRC they are called the T-MZs(?) you will be able to if necessary, try different sabots to get them to shoot well. Not the case with my Boat tailed types.
If anyone reading this has any questions, please by all means ask, I posted this to help others, not seeking compliments or to feed my ego. I will post the targets from my last range session in additional replies to this post.
Hope this is helpful to someone.
Arthur.