Pet deer rifles

[ozark]

This subject has been hashed and re-hashed time and again and comes up again every month or so. You know, which is better, the xx or the xxx caliber or maybe the xxxx? We know that there are countless calibers out there that are good deer calibers if....
If, being used with a bullet and load that matches the caliber and performs well when it hits the deer or some other animal.
A .270 is far superior to any of the others provided it has the best bullet and load. That can be said about any of the others which are considered good deer cartridges. My point is that no caliber or rifle is truly good unless it is married with the right bullet, velocity and sighting equipment. It is the package and not just a caliber that brings success in the field and satisfaction to the hunter.
Many hunters are not hand loaders and depend on ammunition that can be purchased over the counter or ordered. Surely there is a bullet powder combination that is better than the competition. Is the Rem. Core-Lokt equal to the Federal Premium. or is Winchester Supreme equal or better? I have had good luck with several so I assume that to select one and stick with it may be as good as any.
We have some very knowledgeable people on this forum and I would enjoy hearing some opinions detailing what is felt best for your pet deer rifle. I am certainly no expert but I like the Remington Core-Lokt as well as any. For accuracy and bullet performance across the board. It is my guess that it is a matter of personal preference but I would like to know and use the best over the counter ammunition and bullets for the popular rifles. Thanks, I will use comments to answer people who seek my advice.

[Deleted]

My alltime favorite centerfire deer rifle has been a .270 also. I've owned a model 721 Rem, model 70 Win, and now I have a model 700 Rem. Thirty years ago when I was shooting the model 70 I went to great extent to find the perfect deer killer. I was convinced that nothing compared to 4831 and a Nosler Partition. One year on our annual trip to Colorado I found out that I had left my handloads at home. Grudgingly I went to the local hardware and bought a couple boxes of Remington 130gn core-lokts, checked for zero, and went hunting. I killed two deer that season and both were DRT, perfect penetration and expansion. Needless to say that I've been shooting those factory Remingtons ever since. One big factor is that you can find them anywhere and they are usually the cheapest on the shelf. We went down to the local Wal-Mart this season...I paid $17.95 a box; my son paid $31.00 box for his 25-06. I shot a 7mm Mag for a couple years and it didn't kill them any better. There's a lot of new bullets on the market since those days but I doubt if they perform any better.
Zen

[whelenman]

I think a lot of what you're asking depends on the individual, his method of hunting, the range, and the caliber of the rifle. There are just so many variables that the individual really has to pick what will work in his situation. Do you shoot only broadside lung shots? Do you shoot for the shoulder to drop the animal? Do you shoot a high shoulder shot to impact the spine? Do you shoot anglings shots? Do you shoot at running deer? Are the deer 25 yards or 500 yards distant. A combo that might be good at one of these might be a dud at another.

I personally try for broadside lung shots. The deer usually run a short distance and drop but that's acceptable to me. For this use I want a bullet and caliber that will penetrate and give an exit if possible leaving a blood trail. That said I use a high velocity round when I'm shooting fields where the range could get up to several hundred yards. 7mms and 30 caliber magnums get the nod for this and require bullets that will expand reliably at long range but would be a poor choice for a close shot. I try to avoid those close shots with this gear. I have been know to go afield with two different ammos. Personally I like the Ballistic Tips and the Hornady SSTs for this. When hunting the thick stuff I go to bigger calibers with slow moving bullets. 35s get the nod for this and any simple cup and core bullet will do. I like the standard unbonded Hornadys which are very much like the Remington Core-Lokts you mention.

When limited to a choice of over the counter rounds I really like the Winchester Supreme lineup with the combined technology bullets for the high velocity rounds. I've had experience with some of this ammo that was difficult to better with handloads. For a standard cup and core bullet for all purpose the Remington Core-Lokts are hard to beat both for price and all around performance. In my 308 Winchester the Federal Light Magnum load in 165 grains has been my favorite but I read it is going away with Federals introduction of the new Superformance Line.

Like you mentioned....they all work given the proper ammo and proper use. I've got 7 heads mounted here on the wall behind me as I write and every one was taken with a different rifle from muzzleloader to 25 caliber to 35 caliber and in between. They all did what I wanted. The one I've got at the Taxidermist right now from this year will be the first duplicate and this one was with a Savage Muzzleloader.......but it was a different load and bullet!!!!! Rifles are like women.....it would sure be boring if they were all the same.

[ozark]

Wilms, If all women and rifles were the same there would be no capers like Tiger woods and we would all be able to exchange amminution or borrow some from any hunter. Once on opening day in Washington State a man was flaging down all vehicle on this particular road. We pulled up to him and he ask if either of us were using a .303 British rifle. "I forgot to bring ammo with me." I guess that will stick in his mind forever that a rifle without ammunition is as useless as teats on a boar hog. Someone corrected me even on that and said that the number of teats on the boar hog was passed down to their female daughters. So far, it looks like Core-Lokt is getting the nod. Keep opinions coming..

[mountainam]

I have never shot a factory round in any CF I own or ever owned, but I shot a lot of them for my friends. Basically I shot groups with their store bought crap and then showed them my handload's groups in 1/2 grain increments and stopped when they were touching. When you show the fellow how you can wring out a tight group they never go back to store bought stuff and I have a customer for life. But, there was this one time. A close friend of mine brought his then brand spankin' new 700 BDL varmint in 7mm/08 over to the house and we assembled the bases, rings and mounted the scope. We bore sighted old school by placing it on sandbags and looking through the bore to the target. Ran a couple of patches through the new bore and were ready. I snickered when he pulled 2 boxes of Remington 140 gr PSPCL's out of his bag. We started shooting and put 10 shots in one ragged hole that a dime could cover. I've never seen a rifle ever since shoot that well with store bought ammo. Remington only made those 24 in. heavy barreled Varminters in 7mm/08 for 1 or 2 years but none the less I was impressed. I think that Remington may have more precise automated ammo loading machines than do other companies. Out of all the brands that people give me to shoot out of their rifles the Remington Corelokts seem to group the tightest.

[ozark]

I think this is great information for the average hunter. The average hunter (In this area at least) doesn't reload and uses factory loaded ammunition. People who hunt only a week or so each year and little shooting between hunts can't justify getting set up for handloading. After spending around $1500 bucks on a rifle, scope, binoculars and incidentals hunters use it seems like enough for the casual hunter. Remington core-Lokts seem to be plenty accurate for normal Arkansas hill type hunting. I have never used re-loads until the last year or so. I have had many rifles that I considered accurate with factory ammo. If a rifle will group four inches at 200 yards I consider it accurate enough. Small groups are actually IMO only remotely related to hunting accuracy. Hunters usually want a rather light rifle that they can carry all day and are not that concerned if it gets scratched or nicked. A friend of mine has a Model 700 Win. in 30-06 Cal. that has 36 deep notches cut into the stock. He also has a compass imbedded in the stock. At this point I am going to think Rem. Core-Lokts if you don't hand load. Keep ideas coming, my mind is never set in concrete.

[youp50]

Remington core-lokts are available in bulk for the reloader. Typically they are among the lowest cost bullets.

For the deer hunter using 277 dia and up, they are a great bullet. I will not use them in my 25-06. They may be better now, but several years ago I had a factory box of 100 grain 25-06 that were rather explosive on contact. It appears to me that Core-lokts are better when delivered at less than 3000 fps in the 25 caliber.

A bullet that tends to come apart on contact can show some amazing kills. Just slide it in behind the shoulder and go get your venison. Hit a bit forward and you have a long day ahead of you trailing and running and gunning.

I load standard cup and core bullets in 308 Win. The 30 cal seems to be a better fit at 150 grain bullet around 2800 fps. I have recovered several 30 caliber Core-lokts that were not picture perfect. In fact some had very little lead left in the jacket. The key word is recovered. The bullet performance is highlighted by the dead deer.

When you up the ante the premium bullets shine. I know I can drive a 7mm 140 grain Barnes X bullet through the shoulders of a big buck at over 3000 fps. I would not attempt the same with a garden variety bullet.

I think that most hunters do just fine with core-lokts, or WW power points for that matter. The addition of premium lines of hunting ammunition has also improved the 'garden variety' bullet performance. I also think that a person with a fast caliber would do better with a better bullet.

[whyohe]

Ozark i think you are on the right thought pattern. Pet deer rifles IMO are personal choice and what the user feels comfortable with. you do need to find the bullet and load that works best in your particular rifle with the bullet performance each person wants.
I have seen people hunt deer with a 22-250 and take 7 shots to kill the poor thing, and others take 2-3 shots with an 30-06. and yet old time farmers and hunter would routinely kill deer with 22 LR. and Ive seen deer killed with a 17HMR.

I also think the choice of caliber and bullet too depends on what conditions you hunt in. I have heard people say if you are in brush you need that RN core lock to "bust" threw that brush. I don't know if i agree with that but it works for some. I reloaded several different bullets in my 06. I have used Sierra Match kings, EXCELLENT accuracy but no expansion unless i hit heavy bone. went to the Sierra game kings. OK accuracy by my standards, 1 1/2 inch at 100 yards. better killing performance and expansion. bullet performed as designed but not what i wanted. went to Nosler Ballistic tips. Great accuracy, under 1 inch at 100 yards(usually 3/4 to 1/2) and most deer DRT.
Now i do behind shoulder shot as to loose as little meat as possible so that bullet works GREAT for me. But if you do shoulder shot, it is most likely not the bullet for you. one year i ran out of reloads cause i didn't have time to do it so i bought a box of Winchester supremes Ballistic Tip and the shot just like my reloads and bullet performance was the same, same bullet. that has been what Ive been using until factory ammo got hard to get at times and when i went to get another box NO ONE had them so i went to the Hornady Custom Light Mag in the SSTs. these shot 2 inch higher and grouped at right around 1 inch for me . mostly my fault. they grenaded in the deer. DRT. but found lead in the shoulder even tough i shot behind. so i tried the Hornady Inter bonded and performed great. Deer was DRT, and there was an entrance and an exit hole that was about 1.5 x the original diameter but internals jelled.
I can and still will use any of these cause i know how they perform and the different trajectories. with ammo getting hard to get at times i feel it is good to have a back up round.

I think that most of us are accuracy nuts so we are more picky with our ammo. I know alot of guys that will shoot any thing out of their gun cause they can hit a pie plate at 100 yards. I just cant do that.

take this info for what you paid for it! ;D

[ozark]

Whyohe, my time is valuable but you don't owe me any change. The way I hunt (From a heated little cabin) I have no problem with bullet placement. I have many deer do the DRT but have also had some run a couple hundred yards after being hit in the same spot with the same rifle and load. Haven't paid all that much attention field dressing them but obviously if the bullet hits a rib entering things could be different than if it had to break a rib to reach the inner cavity.No shooter can consistently shoot between ribs or insure hitting one. Hitting the heart or missing it by one inch could make a lot of difference too. A calm deer is more likely to go DRT than one that is excited or alerted. I am still hung up on the Core Lokt but I see they have a premium model core-lokt now that might be better for rifles with small bullets and high velocity. It is frustrating to be a gun nut and not be able to say with certainty that one bullet is better for deer hunting when the range is usually fifty yards or out to two hundred. That is where 99 percent of deer are taken.

[Rifleman]

I guess I am reading this all wrong, but for shooting pet deer, rifles are not needed at all. Just a handful of corn and a 22 pistol. When they come up to eat the corn from your hand, just shoot them in the noggin! Matter fact a ball peen hammer would probably work too!

[joe21a]

I have shot deer with all the above and several not mentioned. As a reloader (42 years) I have also used many different bullets and powder combo. I have to say all did well ,maybe not perfect. The weak link would be me if there was a problem. I have the same feelings about 30 cal as Ozark has about the 270. I use mostly 125 gr. Sierra on whit tail. To answer the question of pet deer rifle, it is a ultra light Rugar 308 that I put on a diet and it is lighter with a scope than it was new with out a scope. Light and small, so much so that a couple years ago I had just got a tea and PBJ sandwich out and a nice sized 8 point walked in from behind. Sandwich went in mouth and tea in left hand rifle in right and shot the deer. Try that one with a 9 to 13 lb. rifle 20 feet off the ground in a small tree stand.

[ozark]

Rifleman, you are reading it just fine. Your interpretation of what you are reading is getting scrambled between your eyes and the brain. A check with you gynecologist may be in order.

[joe21a]

No wounder I have trouble getting glasses the don't bother my eyes.I have been going to the wrong doctor!!

[whyohe]

I think i see what you are getting at. to a degree you are right in that no matter what caliber you need to get the right bullet for the gun BUT when you get to larger calibers there is some forgiveness.

I look at it this way.a 30 cal gun has heavier bullet that have higher energy to input to the animal to make a clean kill. you can get bullet weights in a 30 cal from 125 grns to 220grns. I shoot a 150 grn bullet. now the hornady inerbonds have over 2000 fpe at 200 yards box ammo. to where the 243 Hornady 100grn interlock BTSP has 1397 fpe at 200 yards, wich is the largest bullet offered in their box ammo. I know its comparing apples to oranges but it goes to show that the energy difference can make some difference when you shoot a deer if you hit that rib or not. the 30 cal is not as likely to have problems when encounering bone depending on the bullet. now this is just examples. as you had stated that you shot deer in the same spot but some where DRT and others ran but didnt notice if you hit a rib or not.

I guess what im saying is that with smaller calibers you dont have the bullet weight to your advantage. the largest bullet i have found for a 243 for my dad is the 105 grn hornady A-max so far but it is recomended for a specific twist of 1:12 i beleave for best accuracy. each caliber is limited by its case and neck length and OAL in the bullet that can properly fit if you know what i mean here. if you tried to make a 150 grn bullet for a 243 it would be so long that you would be over on OAL and/or the bullet would be so far in the case that there would be so little powder that it would be ill effected.

so yes you need to chooes the right bullet for the gun and game you are taking but for deer a larger caliber is a little more forgiving in the bullet and choice area. it took me several tried to find the bullet that me and my gun liked as to accuracy and terminal performance. there is no certainty in choosing one style of bullet over the other for deer. it is IMO trial and error in seeing what YOU like in performance and accuracy. this is why the goat has free range here!! LOL




Now dont get me wrong here, I firmly beleave a 243 is quite capable of cleanly killing a deer or i would not have bought one for my dad. Just that the bullet choice is critical and there are less choices in smaller calibers compared to larger calibers.

[Rifleman]

I think whyohe is saying he prefers a bigger hammer.LOL

[whyohe]

Jan 3, 2010 12:18:53 GMT -5 Rifleman said:

I think whyohe is saying he prefers a bigger hammer.LOL

LOL . I cant really say that. I did buy my dad a 243. I know it can get the job done. I was raised on some big bore calibers though. I started off with a 44 MAG lever action when i was 12, then when i was 14 went to a .375 winchester lever action. that kicked i believe due to light weight and me only being 14. then went to a 30-06 when i was 16. I never really shot a center fire larger than a 44 cal.

[153]

I have a BAR 30-06(9.5 lbs.), and an A-Bolt 270(8.5 lbs)both shoot MOA. I purchased a Tikka T-3 in 243 for my son who is now 7, it will shoot any bullet I have tried sub MOA. It is very light only 7.5 lbs with scope and I shoot 85 Sierra BTHP with the 243. I now take this 243 with the stand with me most of the time. My son has gone 3 shots=3DRT deer this year and I have 2 shots=1DRT and one 40 yards death run. Also recoil is very light, I guess I would have to call this my PET DEER RIFLE. The Tikka is also the only gun I have that did not go to a gunsmith for a trigger job, I was able to adjust down to 2 lbs with the factory furnished tool and it has a great trigger.

[10ga]

My favorite deer rifle is really a shotgun. Most of VA East of the Blue Ridge is muzzleloader and shotgun only territory. I love my Cabelas .58 hammer gun, the new Savage ML and my TC Firehawk. However my favorite is my Ithaca 10 ga AutoMag. She has let out forcing cone, polished bore and a custom Carlsons screw in choke. With Nitro Ammo 14 pellets nickel plated 000 buck she will put all 14 pellets in a 20" circle at 55 yds. I have a B-Square saddle mount and a 42mm red dot on top. She is Pure Nasty and those 000 buck go clean through deer at 70 yards. Being as I mostly woods hunt that is one bad piece of deer medicine. That is my favorite. If I'm field hunting it is the Savage ML all the way now. Those are my favorites. Best to all, 10 ga

[cfvickers]

I have two pet rifles. One is an encore in 45/70 and the other is a Steyr SBS Pro Hunter Mountain in Stainless, 6.5x55. I choose both because I hunt thick woods and they are both capable of killing DRT with chest cavity shots. I do not believe in neck shots, but understand the logic of those who do. I use rib cage shots to preserve meat. I don't eat the ribs. I have several other rifles that I use occasionally but those are my two go to rifles.

[pposey]

I prefer a smaller hammer than the .270 winchester,,, hunted with one of those for years with a 130 grain bullet at 3100fps,,,, worked well, killed every deer I did my part on with no problems,,,, then I started reloading and found the 7mm-08,,,,, a 120 grain bullet going 3100fps with lots less powder and noise, and kick,,, and the deer are still going flop, perhaps even faster flops because I sure enjoy shooting the 7mm-08 more and am a much better shot "on the fly" than I was with the 270. Load a 140-150grain interbond or partition for bigger stuff and I'd tackle about anything with it in a pinch,,,, course I have a 300WM and my ML2 for planned shots on really big stuff that bites back........