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Post by newdr on Nov 20, 2009 19:18:47 GMT -5
Thinking about a new dedicated turkey gun. Pump d/t price and I plan to use fiber optic sights, Thoughts?? Nova , Mossberg,  |
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Post by mountainam on Nov 20, 2009 21:55:18 GMT -5
Mossberg 835 pump or 935 auto loader are hard to beat. They are about the only off the shelf turkey guns to possess a 10ga bore with a 12 ga 3 1/2" chamber. They are a little heavy but they pattern pretty tight right out of the box. Over the years I perfer the Remington 870 Super mag for turkey due to it's 23 in.barrel and excellent handling. But, out of the box performance of the Mossberg turkey guns is hard to beat for the money.
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Post by 10ga on Dec 5, 2009 12:54:48 GMT -5
If you want it to shoot like a 10 gauge get a 10 gauge. I have older model Ithaca #10 Auto Mag with Carlson screw in Truchokes and a B-Square mount and red dot sight. Deadly nasty... a whole lot less recoil than the 3.5 in #12s too. Also have a Browing Gold #10 auto with a Rhino choke. No sight on top. Also very deadly. Best thing is that you can shoot much better patterns than the 12 ga. with less recoil. Too much physics to explain here. #10 are a tradition im my family. They have been used in every generation, and we have all been professional hunters. Until my son in law, and he still uses a #10 for sport hunting. From great grandfather to grandfather they were commercial duck hunters, from VA Eastern Shore, Dad and I hunted fur and predators professionally, I still do. When it comes to makings things die, #10 is better than a 12 PERIOD. Best, 10 ga
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Post by artjr338wm on Dec 10, 2009 16:51:52 GMT -5
No offense meant, but the 12ga 3.5" mag has rendered the 10ga obsolete. With todays ammunition there is nothing the 10ga can do that the 12ga 3.5" can not do just as well in a smaller, lighter and cheaper package.
I also decided to buy a dedicated turkey gun and this is what I did.
#1-Watched until Remington 870 3.5" Super magnums with 24" barrels went on sale at my local Gander Mtn for $239. These were the all black w/syn stock models that came with studs installed. Lots of stores like BP and Cabelas are running great sales on shotguns right now.
#2-Waited until the Remington made chokes for use with "Heavy Shot" went on sale after turkey season was over. Bought mine for $9.95 in extra full turkey.
#3-Bought TruGlo Pro-Series Magnum Gobble Dot all steel fiber optic front and rear sight that attaches to the vent rib. Fully adjustable for wind-age and elevation. $45 at Cabelas
So for less than $300 I now have a dedicated turkey gun that when used with Winchesters new heavier than lead turkey loads will kill a turkey at ranges that need to be seen to be believed.
The sight work better than I could ever hoped for and allows for much more precise aiming than just a simple bead ever could.
As a side note the same day I bought my above described turkey gun at Gander Mtn over 14yrs ago, my friend was also there and bought a used but in excellent condition Remington SP10 for $675, quite the deal I thought. Well my friend would not stop saying how his SP10 would out perform my lowly cheap 870. Well we soon found our selves at the range patterning and sighting in our turkey guns.
Much to my friends quite humbling surprise, not only did his SP10 not out perform my lowly cheap plastic stocked 870, my 870 clearly patterned better and with some ammo much better than his SP10. And this was not with just one type of turkey ammo but three. My 870 shot Winchester lead turkey loads, Winchester Heaver than lead turkey loads, and Remington Heavy shot turkey loads all with better patterns at 50-70yrds than his SP10 did.
When I shot the the Winchester Elites heavier than lead turkey loads at ranges beyond 50yrds is where I discovered there was a dramatic difference between our two guns. I was even quite surprised and did not expect the results I got shooting at photo copies of a tom turkey head targets made by Primos.
I once at a later sight in session I shot against two of my friends Browning pump shot guns both in 10ga and again had similar results. But this time it was even more dramatic because I was using the Winchester Heavy shot for turkeys and they were using much older lead and copper plated lead shot turkey shells.
In short my 3.5" 870 with the Winchester heavier than lead turkey shells shot much, much denser patterns than their 10gas did at ranges of 45 yards and beyond.
Lucky for me I bought 200 (twenty boxes) of the Winchester Supreme Elite Heavier than lead turkey loads when they were on sale for $19.95 almost 10yrs ago. I count my good fortune because they now cost over $28 for ten rounds.
To be completely honest if I were planning on buying a new 12ga 3.5" pump gun I would have to seriously consider a Binelli Nova. These are awesome guns for the money. I own no less than four 870s in two different variants, and I will tell you the 3.5" Nova is a better made gun than the 3.5" 870 Express. Although my 3.5" 870 express has given me 10+ years of flawless service and has seen hard use in rain and snow.
Just my .50c worth.
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Post by 10ga on Dec 16, 2009 0:14:51 GMT -5
artjr338wm
You are ballistically deficient.
Go back to HS and take phyics again!
You fail!
I could make a list but you wouldn't believe it and you are too hard headed to admit you are WRONG!
Your post is a very nice STORY but you lack facts!
In my class you also fail science!
However you get an A in literature for being entertaining even if your story is difficult to comprehend as being anywhere close to based on real science and physics.
Go back to school!
10 ga
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Post by ET on Dec 16, 2009 19:54:31 GMT -5
I’m not here to debate what is the best shotgun for a Turkey shotgun but what I use and works for me.
About 25-years ago I bought an 870 Magnum Pump that shoots 3” shells. Put on Tru-Glo sights that attach to ventilated rib, extra tight aftermarket-choke and use 1-3/4oz. #5 shot. Pattern shows enough shot density out to 45yds and possibly further but limit my range to 45-yds. Wait for the bird to lift it’s head when in range and blast away. Works for me.
Ed
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Post by artjr338wm on Dec 19, 2009 20:13:22 GMT -5
10ga, and according to science it is aerodynamically impossible for a bumble bee to be able to fly, guess you should go tell the bumble bees to stop flying as they are breaking your laws.
P.S
I advise you go out and invest in a pi$$-proof bowl for your corn flakes, or maybe with luck Santa will put one address to you under your tree next to your beloved 10ga shells. Marry Christmas,
Arthur.
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Post by newdr on Dec 19, 2009 23:24:47 GMT -5
835® ULTI-MAG® PUMP-ACTION - TACTICAL TURKEY™ SERIES
I think this may be the gun
12G 3.5 inch plan to use Hevi-Shot
I would consider a 10 G . What is out there in 10G?
I had a Browning Gold 10 but it was unreliable, traded it for a Benelli SBE for my wing shooting.
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Post by artjr338wm on Dec 20, 2009 15:52:19 GMT -5
I could be wrong on this, but before you consider investing your $$$ in a 10ga you should at least consider the ammo selection for 10ga is quite small when compared to what is available out there in 12ga 3.5". According to Feds w/s they now only make 5 different loads for 10ga.
Also there must be some reason why only Remington and Browning still make multi shot shotguns in 10Ga. My guess since the introduction of the 12ga 3.5" and the new lead free shot that performs much better than steel, there simply is no market left for the 10ga shotgun and they no longer sell in the numbers they once did.
You might be asking why this might matter? when I set out to get me a dedicated turkey gun and after I bought a 870 Supermag I then went out and bought the turkey specialty loads made by Win, Rem, Active and Fed in 12ga 3.5"All in different lot#s. I then took 5 shells each from each box of ten and opened them up and counted each pellet and also counted each one that was deformed or seriously out of round.
Keep in mind these were all turkey loads using standard lead or copper plated lead pellets.
When I was finished two shells emerged the clear winners having the fewest deformed pellets and also the most consistent # of pellets shell to shell. The Rem and Winchester turkey loads. To put it bluntly I was mighty impressed with both the REM and Winchester's QC.
As it turned out the Winchester HV turkey loads shot best out of my 870. But what was even more worth mentioning is the fact that the Federals printed absolutely awful out of my gun and the Actives were a close second. That is not to say they might have performed well out of some other gun/choke combo, just not in mine. So my point being is if you only have a few different 10ga shells to chose from and you run into a problem with them patterning well, you could be in a spot of trouble. Im not saying you will or are likely to, just something to think about. I would pay a visit to where you plan on buying your turkey shells and check out their selection of 10ga shells just as a precaution.
Also keep in mind you can shoot any sized 12ga shell out of a 12ga 3.5" shot gun, with a 10ga you are limited to only 10ga 3.5" shells. Some more food for thought is the fact I have had more turkey shells pattern unacceptably poor out of both my 12ga 3" and 3.5" than ones that did.
All of this I have learned about turkey guns, dedicated turkey loads and chokes specifically designed for use in turkey hunting as well as the chokes that are supposedly designed for use specifically with the newer denser than lead/lead free matrix turkey loads makes me think you could easily not be getting the max potential out of you turkey gun if you are using the wrong shells & choke combination.
But then again considering how relatively easy it was for me to find a shell and choke combo that worked superbly, I might be making much to do about nothing buying into all the hype around specialty turkey guns today.
Now that I remember it, I once bought a 24" long 12ga 3" Hastings after market dedicated turkey barrel (IIRC Hastings made a donation to the NWTF for each one of these barrels they sold) that had iron sights, strait rifling a lengthened forcing cone, and a choke designed specifically for use with #4 or #5 lead or copper plated lead shot. I still have that barrel behind me in my gun safe and it serves as my back-up gun. It did shoot great patterns, but not that much better than my old 24" standard 870 barrel with a extra full turkey choke made by Remington.
One thing I feel I should add in all fairness to 10ga guns, is the fact I have only seen them shot with older lead/copper plated shot and I have no idea about what choke they had in them. But still given the apparent lack of 10ga ammo selection and the fact they are a heavier and larger gun than a 12ga, considerably so, IMHO you will be better served with a 12ga 3.5" VS a 10ga.
I guess the bottom line is buy what will make you happy and instill the most confidence in you. For me that was investing around $290 in a gun, after market sights and choke that gave me a turkey gun that will kill turkeys as far out as I could ever want.
If I were to go out and buy a pump shotgun tomorrow I would be hard pressed to be talked into buying anything besides a Binelli Super Nova in 12ga 3.5" and that is coming from a guy who owns no less than four 870s in two different variants.
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Post by mike3132 on Dec 21, 2009 11:31:16 GMT -5
Fellas,
Lets keep the personal remarks to ourselves or take it to PM's
Now, I decided to buy a dedicated turkey gun and looked at all of them. I ended up buy the Mossberg 835 Ulti-Mag Turkey because of what it came with and it was the lightest of all the guns I held.
I did hone the barrel and changed chokes to a .675 Hastings. The gun will pattern out to 60 yards with Winchester 3" shells. For the money its a hard to beat. Mike
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Post by ozark on Dec 22, 2009 23:04:25 GMT -5
I have serious recoil memories from the Big boys and decided to go with a Mosberg 500 in 20 ga. I put a scope on it and have shot it against 12 Ga. and it has showed itself to be all any hunter could ask for. I have taken gobblers past forty lasered yards and they droped stone dead. Some have flopped a bit but none lifted that head which to me means a second shot may be in order. I use no. 4 shot. I was surprised that more no 4 pellets hit the turkey head neck target than 5s or 6s. As far as velocity goes a 20 can send pellets out at the same speed as a 10 or any other. Just fewer pellets of a given size. I am not trying to sell the 20 and my stand is a dedicated turkey gun is a personal choice. I really like a scope on a turkey gun. Love that turkey hunting.
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Post by newdr on Jan 2, 2010 16:36:24 GMT -5
I am looking at the Encore system for a turkey gun as well.
I do not believe they come in 3 1/2 inch 12 g.
How important is the 3 1/2 vs 3 inch?
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Post by ET on Jan 2, 2010 17:08:17 GMT -5
I am looking at the Encore system for a turkey gun as well. I do not believe they come in 3 1/2 inch 12 g. How important is the 3 1/2 vs 3 inch? Depends on how much recoil is a factor? How heavy a shotgun you want to carry? How much shot do you want to fling at a Turkey? Your choice. 3" with 1-3/4oz and proper choke more than sufficiently does the job for me. Ed |
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Post by mike3132 on Jan 2, 2010 21:10:41 GMT -5
I am looking at the Encore system for a turkey gun as well. I do not believe they come in 3 1/2 inch 12 g. How important is the 3 1/2 vs 3 inch? You better get a very, very good recoil pad on it. Encore shotguns shooting turkey loads kick like a mule! I know a guy who sold his Encore turkey barrel for that reason. Mike |
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Post by ozark on Jan 3, 2010 12:05:58 GMT -5
A few years back I turned into a rabid turkey hunter. Never was much of a shotgunner so I started out with the idea that the more pellets we blasted out the better chance one or enough would reach home to anchor the bird. I worked up to the Remington express 870 Mag before some sence got through my head. The 870 with a 3 1/2 inch turkey loads was very effective in punishing me and bruising my shoulder. It also splattered pellets all through the bird. I then started seeking less recoil and closer patterns. I scoped a Mosberg 500 20 ga. and started seeking a choke with a closer pattern and shots that the gun handled best. I put a good scope on it so that I could precisely aim and hit the head and neck. After some trials I learned that my shotgun liked No. 4 pellets best and that in a head and neck turkey target it worked as well or better than several 12 ga. that I compared it with. It is a solid 40 yard turkey killer and doesn't kick like a mule. I haven't tried hevi shot or see a need to. There are few hunting experiences that I enjoy more than working a gobble into shooting range and then making a bang flop kill. The interaction between the turkey and my calling and the tension of watching, wondering and waiting for it to decide that coming to me is going to be a rewarding move. It is to me.
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Post by youp50 on Jan 3, 2010 15:03:00 GMT -5
Are you guys trying to say that it is possible to kill a 20 pound bird with a shotgun that has less recoil than a 458 Win mag?
My oh my, how will I ever learn to clap with my shoulder blades?
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Post by ET on Jan 3, 2010 16:14:47 GMT -5
Are you guys trying to say that it is possible to kill a 20 pound bird with a shotgun that has less recoil than a 458 Win mag? Definitely  22lbs-7oz on official weight scale at weigh in station. Head-shot with 3” shell loaded with 1-3/4oz #5 shot. One somersault, few flops and it was over. Ed |
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Post by newdr on Jan 13, 2010 6:31:27 GMT -5
It is a Mossberg 835 Tactical Turkey
Plan to try Hevi-Shot first
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Post by ET on Jan 13, 2010 21:54:28 GMT -5
It is a Mossberg 835 Tactical Turkey Plan to try Hevi-Shot first Now that your choice is made look forward to a christening success story this Spring. Ed |
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Post by boarhog on Jan 14, 2010 1:23:19 GMT -5
The best turkey hunter I've ever known used an old pump 20 ga. Not sure what it was, but I think it was a Winchester. 2 3/4 chamber. Since I was far less capable turkey talking with slate and wingbone, I opted for an H&R 10 ga. I have pattern tested it against several 3 1/2" 12 ga, and one 10 ga Rem 870. None have been able to beat, or even equal, the patterns I shoot at any tested distance out to 50 yds., plus the 10 ga shoots the same shot load faster than the 31/2 12 ga. Just as the 2 3/4 12 ga shoots the 1 1/4 oz load faster than the 3" 20 ga shoots the same wt load.
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Post by northny on Jan 15, 2010 21:18:34 GMT -5
I have a 10 gauge that I used for a few years for turkey But I bought a Mossberg 835 for my son, and it has become my favorite turkey gun. He used it with 2 1/2 inch shells, then as he grew older 3 inch, then went to 3.5 inch. We found the 3 inch was all the killing power you needed. I find the 835 is my first choice to hunt turkeys with (if my son is not in camp that is!)
I wound up at camp one time and found I forgot to bring my auto loader for ducks. It was too far to go back, so put in a steel choke tube in the 835 and took it out for ducks the next morning. I went four for four pass shooting ducks in a creek bed. Suprised the heck out of me.
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Post by newdr on Jan 16, 2010 8:07:57 GMT -5
I bought the 835 on Gun Broker. Not here yet.
Shooting my Savage MLII and sighting in an AR15 today.If the 835 was here, would be sighting it in.
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Post by mike3132 on Jan 18, 2010 16:19:08 GMT -5
Try the Hasting .675 choke in the 835. I have several other chokes for mine but the .675 is hands down the better choke. Also a Limbsaver recoil pad makes the gun much more manageable to shoot with heavy turkey loads. Mine shoots almost any shell I put in it. A Winchester 3" 1 3/4 oz #6 pattern out to 60 yards. Mike
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Post by newdr on Jan 20, 2010 21:10:58 GMT -5
Mike,
How did the choke do that comes with the 835?
Did you try Hevi-Shot?
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Post by mike3132 on Jan 20, 2010 23:03:50 GMT -5
It shot the Hevi Shot real good. I patterned 2 3/4 and 3" Hevi-Shot 5 & 6. I didn't use any 3.5 shells though. All my testing was using 2 3/4 and 3". If you shoot Federal shells using the Flite Control wads use a .690 or .706 choke for best patterns. The .690 that comes in the gun will pattern real good out to 40 - 50 yards. One of the best things you can do to improve your pattern with the Mossberg is have the barrel honed smooth. Mossy barrels are pretty rough from the factory. It usually cost between 35 - 65 dollars. Mike
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Post by mountainam on Jan 21, 2010 8:09:05 GMT -5
Newdr, If your 835 is an older one you probably don't need to worry about the barrel. I bought my son one in 1999 as a graduation present and I was really impressed with it. He also uses a Carlson .675" choke. We use buffered #5 3 1/2" handloads and the gun performed so well that I bought another a few years later and won one for a $1 ticket in a raffle. The 1999 model had a barrel that was like a mirror and would put 105 #5's in a 10" circle at 50 yds. When I unscrewed that choke and installed it in the other two guns they would only put 70 pellets in a 10" circle at 50 yds. with the same ammo. When the 835 first came out Wal Mart sold them for $398 and then a few years later they were selling them for $298. After my experience I concluded that the price dropped because they lowered the manufacturing cost. The two newer guns had visible tooling marks in the bore like you'd expect from a Chinese gun. It looks like they skipped the honing process. So mike3132 is correct about the factory barrels and gives good advice.Good Shooting!
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Post by newdr on Feb 2, 2010 22:25:14 GMT -5
I bought the 835 used. How do I tell how old it is and if I need to worry about the barrel?
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Post by mountainam on Feb 2, 2010 23:22:53 GMT -5
The older turkey guns came with the original Realtree camo coating. Clean the bore thoroughly and it should look like a mirror. If not, then you may have a newer model. Oh yeah, the older models did not come from the factory with any type of glow sights. The factory choke measures .690". That won't give you the core density for 75 yard shots. You may want to purchase a .675" Carlson choke from Midsouth Shooter Supply. They are inexpensive and work well. I've paid in excess of $75 for chokes that didn't perform as advertised and sent them back. Shoot some 50 yard patterns and count the pellets in a 10" core.Good Shooting!
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Post by mike3132 on Feb 3, 2010 15:11:21 GMT -5
I bought the 835 used. How do I tell how old it is and if I need to worry about the barrel? Is it camo, black or wood stock? Like Mountainman said look threw the barrel and if you see ring marks or its rough looking then the barrel would benefit from honing. If its mirror like then dont worry about it. I would buy a .675 choke and shoot it a few times and see how the gun patterns and then make the decision to hone the barrel. You can usually get a used or new choke off gunbroker for $20 or less and I don't think what brand it is will make much difference. Ive shot many different guns and turkey shells and from my experience Winchester turkey loads usually pattern the best but your gun might be different. A good recoil pad will make the gun much more pleasent to shoot. I put a Limbsaver on my 835 and it really made a difference. Good luck, Mike |
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Post by newdr on Feb 3, 2010 21:42:37 GMT -5
Camo, has a Mossberg Turkey Choke, and a slip on recoil pad which appears factory.
Does Simms make a Limbsaver pad for it?
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