|
Post by Iweetodid on Jul 7, 2021 15:47:47 GMT -5
Wow, what a dicovery. I was looking at the variflame system that uses a rifle primer instead of a 209 shot gun primer. So I took a spent 209 primer and poped it out of the cup using a punch. Then I removed the anvil from the spent primer and put the primer back in the cup and pushed it down till it touched the bottom of the cup. Then I used a sharp punch and punched a hole in the centre of the spent primer. After that I put in a rifle primer and pushed it down as far as it would go. Then I put it in my ml and it fired, no problem. I am going to go and try a loaded round to see how well it works and get back to everyone later.
|
|
|
Post by Iweetodid on Jul 7, 2021 19:49:30 GMT -5
Well, went out and shot 3 rounds using 40g of imr 4759 with 300 grain hornady bullet and every round went of awsome with perfect spent primers. A poor mans variflame lol.
|
|
|
Post by ET on Jul 7, 2021 20:35:40 GMT -5
Well, went out and shot 3 rounds using 40g of imr 4759 with 300 grain hornady bullet and every round went of awsome with perfect spent primers. A poor mans variflame lol. Congrats on your venture. My curiosity is what motivated you to try this project.
|
|
|
Post by Iweetodid on Jul 7, 2021 20:59:01 GMT -5
I am truly bored. I lost my wife of 35 years three years ago and need somthing to keep my mind on. I bought a traditions ml and wanted to see if it would improve the lousy performance after being told that the primers where the problem so I started thinking about it. After seing the variflow system made by other people I wondered if I could just make it work with the spent 209's and it worked but it will not be as good a system as the profetional ones on the market. I did order the veriflow for my savage ml 2.
|
|
|
Post by ET on Jul 7, 2021 21:04:37 GMT -5
Thanks for replying to my query.
|
|
|
Post by dannoboone on Jul 8, 2021 11:08:33 GMT -5
I am truly bored. I lost my wife of 35 years three years ago and need somthing to keep my mind on. I did order the veriflow for my savage ml 2. Very sorry to hear about your wife. If I were to lose my wife of 45 years, I would have to do a LOT more leaning on God. Veriflow or veriflame? Did you get this?: prbullet.com/s-kit.htm
|
|
|
Post by Iweetodid on Jul 8, 2021 15:15:11 GMT -5
Yes I did say variflow, sorry guys. It is the variflame system. Still waiting for it to arrive.
|
|
|
Post by Iweetodid on Jul 8, 2021 15:18:27 GMT -5
Well, went out and shot 3 rounds using 40g of imr 4759 with 300 grain hornady bullet and every round went of awsome with perfect spent primers. A poor mans variflame lol. Congrats on your venture. My curiosity is what motivated you to try this project. OK, I didn't read your comment properly. You said YOUR CURIOSITY MOTIVATED ME AND I THOUGHT YOU ASKED ME WHAT MOTIVATED ME, SORRY ET.
|
|
|
Post by ET on Jul 8, 2021 16:14:35 GMT -5
Iweetodid
You got it right. I get lazy with my grammar sometimes and should have written it this way: My curiosity is, "what motivated you to try this project?"
|
|
|
Post by dannoboone on Jul 9, 2021 10:12:13 GMT -5
A few years ago, I got the kit which has a different bolt head, and had to loosen the barrel and adjust head space. For 15 years, I have tried just about everything under the sun to stop leakage from around the primers. Nothing, including the variflame system worked. Someone mentioned using tiny "O" rings (from McMaster-Carr) placed in the breech plug in which the primers sealed on stopped all leakage in their break-open that uses a similar system. So I got some of the "O" rings and tried them. It took yet another head space adjustment but worked like a charm! That 15-year long aggravation was finally over!
|
|
|
Post by Iweetodid on Jul 9, 2021 11:52:49 GMT -5
A few years ago, I got the kit which has a different bolt head, and had to loosen the barrel and adjust head space. For 15 years, I have tried just about everything under the sun to stop leakage from around the primers. Nothing, including the variflame system worked. Someone mentioned using tiny "O" rings (from McMaster-Carr) placed in the breech plug in which the primers sealed on stopped all leakage in their break-open that uses a similar system. So I got some of the "O" rings and tried them. It took yet another head space adjustment but worked like a charm! That 15-year long aggravation was finally over! That's awsome. I have a traditions break action with the screw out BP and it leaks as well so I am going to drill and tap it for a vent liner and the variflame as well. It should change a rather cheaper ml into something much better.
|
|
|
Post by tn10ml2 on Oct 25, 2021 18:10:03 GMT -5
What is the benefit of using large rifle or large rifle magnum primers as opposed to 209 or 209m primers?
|
|
|
Post by sideshow on Nov 17, 2021 12:01:39 GMT -5
Woodman Arms makes a brass 209 /LRP adapter modual of brass that will do the job as well . Not sure if Mark is fully into production yet but call them and see . This modual is dimmentionally a 209 made in brass but takes a LRP . Theyre pretty slick !!!
|
|
|
Post by ourway77 on Nov 24, 2021 14:36:17 GMT -5
Sorry for your loss If I lost my wife of 63 years I would be lost to no end I am 85 and have many health problems I can no longer hunt she does everything for me I don't think I could go on if I lost her I know this is selfish but I pray I go first
|
|
|
Post by dannoboone on Nov 25, 2021 13:15:50 GMT -5
Sorry for your loss If I lost my wife of 63 years I would be lost to no end I am 85 and have many health problems I can no longer hunt she does everything for me I don't think I could go on if I lost her I know this is selfish but I pray I go first The avatar used on other forums of the two of you is warming and priceless.
|
|
|
Post by ourway77 on Nov 27, 2021 19:42:53 GMT -5
Thank You
|
|
|
Post by sideshow on Dec 3, 2021 17:28:48 GMT -5
What is the benefit of using large rifle or large rifle magnum primers as opposed to 209 or 209m primers? The theory is that the heat is there with LRP but the volume of gas that a 209 has isnt there to move the powder and bullet before complete combustion can occur . The LRP is usually more accurate for this reason . The 209 is also a dirty burning primer and will foul the passage to the flashole fairly quick . A LRP is Much cleaner in its burn .
|
|
|
Post by sideshow on Dec 3, 2021 17:35:02 GMT -5
Do realize though with a 209 plug and a LRP plug there Are design differences . A true LRP plug is the better plug .
|
|
|
Post by ET on Dec 4, 2021 10:45:35 GMT -5
What is the benefit of using large rifle or large rifle magnum primers as opposed to 209 or 209m primers? The theory is that the heat is there with LRP but the volume of gas that a 209 has isnt there to move the powder and bullet before complete combustion can occur . The LRP is usually more accurate for this reason . The 209 is also a dirty burning primer and will foul the passage to the flashole fairly quick . A LRP is Much cleaner in its burn . Sideshow Who’s theory, yours? If the bullet is not moving while combustion occurs then the pressure will escalate to a damaging level. Stating that a primer is the main cause of fouling what you call a flash hole without considering returning bore pressure carrying burnt powder is a misconception. Prove to me that a LRP produces a cleaner burn?
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Dec 4, 2021 11:06:35 GMT -5
I think he is talking about the myth started by Cecil Epp of Precision Rifle bullet. The exact same guy that for years has claimed a 45cal faster than a 1-24 cant shoot a sabot fast. Both claims have been proven to be false. Countless NMLRA inline matches have been won using 209s and 45 1-20s. They exact same twist he says WONT shoot and you should not buy one.
What i have seen is the LRMP systems can reduce flash hole wear. Whether its the difference in flash channel volume or the composition i cant say for certain. I know for sure my NULA 209 plug lasts a super long time and hardly builds any carbon in the flash channel using either CCI 209 primer. How can this be if a LRMP is so much cleaner and erodes the flash hole slower? I can literally shoot it 40 times and almost nothing comes out with a drill bit cleaning.
The big advantage of LRMP is when you can make the primer closer to the powder. To do this you have less flash channel volume also. Less volume means more peak can reach the primer or in this case the module also. As more "force" reaches the primer/module more strength is needed to contain it. Rifles like a MLII and Rem700ML have no lugs to handle the increase. Im pretty certain this is why Luke made the Rem700ML LRMP breech plugs differently. They have a larger volume than his standard LRMP plug.
So if a LRMP has less energy or gas whatever you want to call it and you make it further from the powder you have lost the main advantage a LRMP module system offers. Cecils designs used basically the same amount of channel volume as the 209 plugs he mods. All he did was enlarge the primer pocket to accept his Variflame. Then perpetuates the myth about how they wont move the sabot off the powder. If his system was so great every single shooter at the NMLRA inline matches would have been using them well before current LRMP module systems were for sale.
|
|
|
Post by dannoboone on Dec 5, 2021 11:41:08 GMT -5
The big advantage of LRMP is when you can make the primer closer to the powder. To do this you have less flash channel volume also. Less volume means more peak can reach the primer or in this case the module also. As more "force" reaches the primer/module more strength is needed to contain it. Rifles like a MLII and Rem700ML have no lugs to handle the increase. Im pretty certain this is why Luke made the Rem700ML LRMP breech plugs differently. They have a larger volume than his standard LRMP plug. So if a LRMP has less energy or gas whatever you want to call it and you make it further from the powder you have lost the main advantage a LRMP module system offers. Cecils designs used basically the same amount of channel volume as the 209 plugs he mods. All he did was enlarge the primer pocket to accept his Variflame. Then perpetuates the myth about how they wont move the sabot off the powder. If his system was so great every single shooter at the NMLRA inline matches would have been using them well before current LRMP module systems were for sale. Not to start a debate, but just an observation....over the years there have been several photos over the 'net in which 10MLII barrels have literally blown up, some to the point where one could see the end of the breech plug. Has there ever been an instance where the breech plug itself failed? I have not seen any. Or as hillbill has stated, he has gone to CF actions for "peace of mind". Ol' Cecil is certainly opinionated, is he not? I modified his modification to accept a bushing and made the flame path 1/4" shorter. In all honesty I cannot tell the difference in performance between this system in the 10MLII and the 209 powered plug in the 700ML.
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Dec 5, 2021 14:37:08 GMT -5
Im not talking about a plug failure but how much "thrust" a non lugged bolt can take when the module is against it. At the very least the wear and tear on the little bolt holding it and the groove it rides in. My NULA has a lug and the bolt itself is made from 4340. So even though its a 209 with a tiny flash channel there is more there to handle the extra pressure that reaches the primer.
|
|
|
Post by sideshow on Dec 6, 2021 1:02:01 GMT -5
The theory is that the heat is there with LRP but the volume of gas that a 209 has isnt there to move the powder and bullet before complete combustion can occur . The LRP is usually more accurate for this reason . The 209 is also a dirty burning primer and will foul the passage to the flashole fairly quick . A LRP is Much cleaner in its burn . Sideshow Who’s theory, yours? If the bullet is not moving while combustion occurs then the pressure will escalate to a damaging level. Stating that a primer is the main cause of fouling what you call a flash hole without considering returning bore pressure carrying burnt powder is a misconception. Prove to me that a LRP produces a cleaner burn? Well even if i didnt speak it to you liking i didnt leave a guy hanging for an answer since October ?? Why didnt you answer him ?? It was a legit question ?? Fact IS GM 54 had the BEST answer period !!! And Here he isnt a moderator either . And peacefully he laid it out there too . Thanks GM54 .
|
|
|
Post by sideshow on Dec 6, 2021 1:28:08 GMT -5
Im not talking about a plug failure but how much "thrust" a non lugged bolt can take when the module is against it. At the very least the wear and tear on the little bolt holding it and the groove it rides in. My NULA has a lug and the bolt itself is made from 4340. So even though its a 209 with a tiny flash channel there is more there to handle the extra pressure that reaches the primer. Gm54 theres a guy , elkman1310 , on another forum that apparently has figured out something with plug design too like NULA did . He builds 700mls exclusively and his own plugs without screw wear hardly at all . He shoots heavy loads with heavy bullets in those 45s as well . I know you know of him . I say theres still some to be learned on this entire subject that apparently only a couple have figured out . My 2 cents on that anyway.....
|
|
|
Post by ET on Dec 6, 2021 8:12:32 GMT -5
[/quote]Well even if i didnt speak it to you liking i didnt leave a guy hanging for an answer since October ?? Why didnt you answer him ?? It was a legit question ?? Fact IS GM 54 had the BEST answer period !!! And Here he isnt a moderator either . And peacefully he laid it out there too . Thanks GM54 .[/quote]
What does my not responding to a question from another member got to do with you, absolutely nothing. All your trying to do is redirect attention from your post. That says a lot and your not fooling anyone.
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Dec 6, 2021 12:23:39 GMT -5
That is basically what im saying too. As far as ignition goes i just dont see one being better than the other if both are using the larger/longer flash channel. Shorten the distance from the primer to the powder though and the LRMP is the clear winner using a good module. Its just a little less convenient to load the modules and more expensive.
|
|
|
Post by sideshow on Dec 12, 2021 13:16:54 GMT -5
Well even if i didnt speak it to you liking i didnt leave a guy hanging for an answer since October ?? Why didnt you answer him ?? It was a legit question ?? Fact IS GM 54 had the BEST answer period !!! And Here he isnt a moderator either . And peacefully he laid it out there too . Thanks GM54 .[/quote] What does my not responding to a question from another member got to do with you, absolutely nothing. All your trying to do is redirect attention from your post. That says a lot and your not fooling anyone.[/quote] Why because this guy and others may want to know the reason ?? Seems to me Gm54 answered it best and the most detail too . Fact is ET the LRP DOES burn Cleaner than a 209 !!! A 209 will have a plug a pig pen before long and need drilled out !!! Fact is that "shock absorbing chamber" does get Filthy with most 209 plugs . Better look again to whose bobbin and weavein looking foolish doing it . I had no ego in this till one showed up .
|
|
|
Post by ET on Dec 12, 2021 16:52:26 GMT -5
Sideshow
You’re not going to get me on the defensive as there is nothing to defend. Trying to discredit me to justify your previous post feels like a desperate act. Most members know what kind of individual you are from past postings and not fooled by your behavior. By the way what is a Shock Absorbing Chamber? Are you referring to what most knowledgeable shooters called a Flame Channel?
|
|
|
Post by sideshow on Dec 16, 2021 7:21:54 GMT -5
In function thats what the flame channel amounts to ET , A shock absorbing chamber . It wouldnt need to even be if not for that function .
As for the rest you remember my name from previous opinions we havent shared . Your response to my initial post on this thread confirmed that for me without question . That intent was obvious .
|
|
|
Post by ET on Dec 16, 2021 8:16:37 GMT -5
In function thats what the flame channel amounts to ET , A shock absorbing chamber . It wouldnt need to even be if not for that function . As for the rest you remember my name from previous opinions we havent shared . Your response to my initial post on this thread confirmed that for me without question . That intent was obvious . Sideshow First off, the flame channel doesn’t absorb any shock. It houses reduced bore pressure coming back through a vent to minimize impact to the primer. So, you feel we haven’t shared opinions. What about the discussion of using an aluminum cooling rod or do you have a short memory? My only intent is intercepting misleading information whether it be you or someone else. You can form whatever opinion you want but your behavior tells the real story.
|
|