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Savage Muzzleloading Message Board
"The Internet's First Message Board For the Savage Muzzleloader" Since December, 4 2000 This forum is dedicated exclusively for the discussion of the Savage Muzzleloader. This message board is not affiliated with Savage Arms. Please note that any loads used that are not in the Savage owner's manual are used at the owner's own risk, this forum's owner will not be held liable for any damage to equipment from using said loads. DO NOT USE SMOKELESS POWDER IN ANY MUZZLELOADER OTHER THAN THE SAVAGE
Yeah, I think 10ML came out in 2001. No idea why I said 2004.
I was barely a twinkle in my dad's eye in '77, so I'll definitely defer to you on the Pyrodex dates. When did pellets come out?
Let me preface this by saying, I am not a fan of pellets of any manufacture for several reasons.
Pyrodex Pellets for the .50 caliber in 50 grain Black Powder equivalent came out in 1997. I still have my first and only box, which is dated 04 18 97. The other Pyrodex Pellets for .50 caliber in 30 grain BP equivalent charges and other calibers came later.
Triple Se7en loose powder was introduced in 2001, and more energetic than both Black Powder and Pyrodex by volumetric measure. Loose FFG needed to be reduced by 15%, and FFFG needed to be reduced by 20% by Volume. Triple Se7en Pellets were originally also more energetic like the Triple Se7en loose powders. This made the 50 caliber in 50 grain Volume equivalent, equivalent to .50 grains Triple Se7en loose powder, which was 15% to 20% more energetic than Black Powder or Pyrodex by Volume.
The first distributed Triple Se7en pellets were either recalled or dealers were directed to remove them from the shelves. I was not an early adopter of the Triple Se7en Pellets, because I was not a fan of Pyrodex Pellets. The Triple Se7en pellets were then released again later as 50 grain Volume equivalent to Black Powder and Pyrodex. I believe the reason they did this is because some inline rifles of that time had 100 grain Volume Black Powder maximums. The original Triple Se7en Pellets would have been equivalent to a 120ish grain Volume Equivalent to Black Powder and Pyrodex. My first and only box of Triple Se7en Pellets us dated 02/06 2003. These were the neutered pellets by that time.
Triple Se7en Magnum Pellets were introduced in 2007, and were basically exactly what the original Triple Se7en pellets were.
IMR White Hots Pellets came out in 2009, a year after Blackhorn 209 was released to the public. CVA and IMR were immediate bed partners. Took Western Powders and additional 2 years to get CVA to produce the BLACKHORN Breech Plugs, after spoon feeding them the blueprint and samples. They finally got on board in 2011 after customer pressure persuaded them to make the plugs. I think that IMR honeymoon might have ended in 2019 when CVA introduced the fast twist .45 caliber Paramount and Accura? They even include the BLACKHORN breech plug as OEM in the fast twist .45 caliber Accura, instead of the OEM pellet breech plug in all the other tip-up rifles. I traded a guy a jug of Blackhorn 209 for some White Hots, and I can honestly say he got the better deal out of that trade.
The Triple Se7en Fire Star Pellets were introduced in early 2018, 2 years ago. Just when you think Pellets couldn't get any more expensive, make them in a star shape, at 33 grain Black Powder equivalent, so it takes 3 pellets to get a 100 grain BP equivalent charge.
Now the newest thing is the Hodgdon/Federal Triple Ei8ht FireStick. I am predicting it will soon be known as the FizzleStick!
Here's a little older Hodgdon History.
....."Smokeless propellants are only half of the famous Hodgdon story. Muzzleloading shooters and hunters around the world recognize Hodgdon as the company that makes the best performing, most convenient, safest, and easy to clean black powder substitute propellants. Pyrodex®, introduced in 1976, is the most successful black powder substitute on the market. Pyrodex products are safer, cleaner burning and produces 30% more shots per pound than common black powder. Pyrodex also makes it easier to clean the gun after shooting.
Innovation is a key part of Hodgdon’s philosophy and values. The patented Pyrodex Pellets give the modern muzzleloader speed and safety in a convenient preformed charge. They offer quick and safe no-spill loading, instant ignition, and faster second shots.
Always looking to the future, Hodgdon took muzzleloading to the next millennium with Triple Seven® muzzleloading Pellets and granular propellants. Introduced in 2001, Triple Seven has proven to be very consistent and accurate but is most recognized for its easy water clean up and no sulfur (rotten egg) smell! In 2007, Triple Seven Magnums were introduced. Magnums deliver higher energy for serious hunting knock down power.".....
I enjoyed the podcast when they let you talk. I'm not a smokeless shooter as you probably know, even though I have a semi-custom rifle that is capable. I've only shot 2 of Toby's Savage ML10-II's back in 2003 when he was in Michigan promoting their use. Michigan DNR won't budge on the smokeless during the muzzleloader deer season statewide, nor in the lower half of the Lower Peninsula Limited Firearms Deer Zone in the general firearms season. Even though they allow the straight walled center fires, as well as in the CWD Core area and CWD Management Zone during the Muzzleloading Deer Season.
Sorry so long, but you asked, at least about the pellets.