Looking for Opinions or Suggestions

[ET]

Spring is still a way’s off before I can continue with more PT testing of certain powders. I pretty much have a format in place and how I want to compile data. Once I get to better know the burn response of some powders under different conditions it will be load development time. Here I have 4-bullets in mind to start with.

The question here is “What velocity would you assign to each bullet for a specific application?”.

Keep in mind most of my past experience has been with the 250 SST-FTX. Now I want to add versatility through bullet selection.
Going to the range shooting 1 size bullet can get boring and need to expand my knowledge for different bullets to make it more interesting.

Ed

[reloader22]

Very open ended question with tons of variables. If you shoot one of the frangibles real fast and shoot your deer real close you will have "bombs". If you slow them down but have a longer shot, it will be harder to hit if there is lots of drop. If the coppers will shoot you may get the best of all worlds. Flat, expansion, full penetration and less damaged meat.

250 SST? low book velocity for closer shots. High speed for long shots. Who knows where the deer shows up? Same with 225 FTX and 200 Ftx.

One good thing is that even though some of the fragile bullets are low weight for caliber, they are still possessing pretty good mass and will probably kill deer at any angle or range.

I have come to the conclusion that if coppers can be shot fast with good accuracy in either a ML or centerfire, look no further. I'm sure there are plenty of other opinions out there, all of which are welcome.

[BuckDoeHunter]

My two Apex SML's are loaded with the 250gr TEZ at 2550fps. Hopefully, some deer will fill my freezer.

[ET]

Reloader22
Enjoyed reading your bullet application assessment. Yes, these bullets have a fragmenting characteristic and more so when velocity is increased. For a number of years my go to bullet was the 250 SST-FTX that produced one-shot kills because the fragmentation quality would devastate internal organs once it got inside the body. There was basically no tracking as the deer wouldn’t get far before expiring. Boiler room shots and muzzle velocity of slightly over 2300fps covered me out to 200yds.
I’m not a long-range shooter and most of my hunting is done in woodlots.

As for the 225 and 200 FTX bullets they could play multi load applications ranging from a youth load to preliminary load development to their all copper counterparts. For copper bullets I definitely want more pizzazz (velocity) behind them. So I’m looking at a cost factor to consider for this part of load development and practice sessions.

Thanks for your input.

Ed

[ET]

Jan 6, 2020 21:50:36 GMT -5 BuckDoeHunter said:

My two Apex SML's are loaded with the 250gr TEZ at 2550fps. Hopefully, some deer will fill my freezer.

BuckDoeHunter

Thanks for your input. 2550fps sounds like a good number to me to try. It seems like all you need now to fill that freezer is shot opportunity.

Ed

[dannoboone]

Jan 6, 2020 21:50:36 GMT -5 BuckDoeHunter said:

My two Apex SML's are loaded with the 250gr TEZ at 2550fps. Hopefully, some deer will fill my freezer.

Your Apex's are .45, correct?

ET, you MAY need to knurl the TEZ's to get a tighter fit. I have
yet to measure a Barnes copper that was not under diameter. The
.451's are closer to .450 and even if the .451's were of correct
stated diameter, that is .001 less than the SST's.

[ET]

dannoboone

Thanks for the heads-up.
Actually I prefer to have a knurl on all my bullets.
It provides the required fit (load resistance) I want them to have.
For me Taylor Made loads work the best.

Ed

[coyotemaster1]

Hi bud!
So you've still been hurling those 250 FTXs? They are a deadly slug and I understand you are just wanting.to play around with some lighter weight bullets. I cut my teeth on.the 250 XTPs and they were were the first ones I killed.deer with but the B.C. was abysmal. Going with a !lighter bullet will necessitate it being shorter and.any advantage the plastic tip would have given with the longer slug is obviously forefeited.
I'm not sure where the break over is in.regard to weight and speed(and bc) but it would.be.an.interesting quest.
I haven't shot my SML for a while but the 10/50 duplex with 5744/ 4198 was extremely accurate.in my PacNor @2550 and terminal performance out to 300 was impressive. Past that if there was any wind you needed a rosary and a strong religious foundation to attempt a shot.
CM TIM

[BuckDoeHunter]

Jan 7, 2020 14:24:33 GMT -5 dannoboone said:

Jan 6, 2020 21:50:36 GMT -5 BuckDoeHunter said:

My two Apex SML's are loaded with the 250gr TEZ at 2550fps. Hopefully, some deer will fill my freezer.

Your Apex's are .45, correct?

Yes, .45's. I put a heavy knurl on them with somewhat fine files.

[ET]

Coyotemaster1

It has been awhile and trust all is well with you and the family.
Yes, so far, the 250FTX has been a reliable bullet for bringing home the meat. But now I want to explore other options. With the discontinuation of 4759 I also want to explore other powder options and their range of usage.
For some shooters the bigger bullet provides what they feel is a better choice for them. I respect their choice but don’t fully agree with it. For the lighter bullets I plan to use has a multipurpose. One being range time with less poundage on this older shoulder. Also, the lighter bullets mentioned cost less so more bang for the buck.

As for duplex loads that will be at the trailing end of my powder experiments.
Thanks for your reply and input.

Ed

[ET]

As there doesn’t appear to be interest of using lighter bullets then as soon as I finish running my testing of 4227 with different configured Savage BP’s I will begin load development with the 250gr bullet. From my initial starting results, I feel reasonably confident I can achieve 2550fps with the right load resistance and BP configuration with 4227 and still remain in my designated safe zone for peak pressure.

After that I can explore lighter bullets and Alliant 2400. I’ve already groomed some 225gr fledglings for their solo flight but they will have wait in line until I’m done with the 250gr bullets.



Ed

[reloader22]

So, FWIW, a guy at camp who never jumped on the smokeless bandwagon (or any other bandwagon for that matter) still uses a very old (1998 vintage) 50 cal thunder hawk and 100 gr FFG and 185 gr .451 XTP.s during our ML season.  This clocks about 1450 fps and he has killed as many deer as we have with our Panzr Faus's.  We recover all his slugs on the off side just under the skin.  All deer die about as fast as what we shoot them with and this little pill still almost comes apart.  Almost always find the base with a little lead in it and probably shedding more than half its weight.  That's why I think the 200,225,250 fragile slugs at 1000 fps faster are kinda bomby.  


We kill a pile of deer ML weekend mostly driving so shots are almost always in the woods under 100 yds.  Since many of us always sit an hour or so in the am and pm in stands, we load hot for longer shots....then kill deer all day in the woods close.  For me, that's where I like the coppers for dual duty.  2 holes guaranteed at almost any impact speed/angle, expansion, minimizes meat damage and able to hunt one load for all situations.


If loading for a young hunter, any of these slugs kept around 1500-1800 fps would be great.  Depends what you are doing.

[ET]

Reloader22

Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective on bullet loads.
I was thinking that for a youth load 1900-2000fps would be a good start. Then anyone could download this load for the lighter bullets if they desire.
But I also want to develop a varmint load with the lighter bullets. That means putting some serious velocity behind them.

I totally agree with your choice of all copper bullets and am working in that direction with the 250 TEZ for deer. Now I need practice time to maintain a certain proficiency so for practice the 250gr FTX will suffice and be a reasonably priced bullet to do so. 2020 will be an interesting year and probably a few more surprises.

Ed

[dans]

My middle son absolutely will not shoot deer unless he uses his load. 42 grains N-110, 250 shockwave, red harvester sabot, and a CCI. 200m primer. Close to 30 deer have fallen to this load and he has never lost one. Short blood trails and many have fragged but they kill deer.

[ET]

Jan 30, 2020 3:04:56 GMT -5 dans said:

My middle son absolutely will not shoot deer unless he uses his load. 42 grains N-110, 250 shockwave, red harvester sabot, and a CCI. 200m primer. Close to 30 deer have fallen to this load and he has never lost one. Short blood trails and many have fragged but they kill deer.

That is a classic, dependable load when placed in the boiler room. I have used a similar load for years with 4759, 250SST-FTX and all were one-shot kills. One shot in particular came close to the leg bone that could have left me with a crippled deer. So now I want to move to an all copper 250 that would break through the bone and still produce enough hydrostatic shock to damage internal organs. Instead of fragmentation a powerful shockwave should damage internal organs. Either approach is good but I feel more confident with an all copper bullet should bone contact occur.

[10ga]

There are plenty of bullets to shoot for the info. I shoot a lot of Fury now, especially for hunting. Then its a few Parker and Pittman offerings. 10