|
|
Post by omidv on Dec 31, 2019 11:13:03 GMT -5
I’m wanting to get a new muzzleloader in 45 cal
I’m wondering on peoples thoughts on the knight mountaineer 45 1-20 twist.
I have read about the CVA Paramount and the Cooper in 45 cal, both with comparable twist rates.
My question is, how well does the Mountaineer compare to these?
I’ll mostly use it just for hunting. I do like the feel of a wood stocked rifle.
How does the straight stock handle vs the thumbhole when using stout charges of Black horn 209?
Should I get the fpj model or bare primer? I do live in Michigan so I know I don’t need western ignition. Just looking to see what works best. I’d rather have the bare 209 because of the need to buy the fpj seems like a issue down the road.
Also what about the nitride finish vs the stainless?
Most likely I will try the newer Power belts designed for the paramount or sized .451 jacketed bullets also with no sabot. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
I’m only asking because they seem to be hard to find unless you order the gun, it would be easier to pick one up and look at it.
|
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Dec 31, 2019 17:33:22 GMT -5
Bare primer for sure but you will want the Lehigh bare primer plug or the Bestill plug. The Lehigh plug is only around $24.50 shipped with 1 vent liner. The Mountaineer will probably out shoot the Cooper from what ive seen. 1-20 will stabilize bullets the Paramount 1-22 will not such as some of the Pittmans. If you want a cheap 45 you can get the Accura LR 45 1-22 for about $450 directly from CVA with free shipping. They are closing out last years models. If you want a Paramount get one already upgraded by Luke with his LRMP conversion. You can DIY cheaper if you get one of the Paramounts for the $800 CVA closeout pricing too. Next years model gets a couple upgrades including a thread barrel. I went with the Mountaineer 45 1-20 barrel kit with Knight parts i already had. The barrel will drop right in an Elite stock or any Knight stock cut out for the forked lug. I only had to buy the Lehigh plug. www.muzzleloaders.com/product/mountaineer-muzzleloader-45-cal-120-fast-twist-barrel-kit/ |
|
|
|
Post by omidv on Jan 1, 2020 9:51:06 GMT -5
I’ll definitely look into a new plug. Do the factory ones just not last long? And the vent liners, should I stock up on them? My concern is that I will own the rifle, love the way it shoots and then some where down the road parts become scarce. That was the main reason for asking about the fpj because I figured I would run out and have a hard time getting them one day. Also I was reading that you can use a little hotter charge in the knight 45? Like 140 grains by volume of black Horn? I was reading that the new knight rifles come with timney triggers also. I really want to check one of these out. I’m gonna have to call Williams gun sight and see if they have any.
|
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 1, 2020 10:23:07 GMT -5
Lehigh bare primer plug is made from 17-4 SS and the vent can be replaced.
Knight bare primer plug is made from 416 and the vent liner is braised in.
Sportmans warehouse has the bare primer kit for $80 if you find a deal on the FPJ model. Takes a couple minutes to convert them. FPJ models can also be converted using the Lehigh FPJ adapter and plug.
No, max load is rated at 120grV. Bestill sells a much upgraded rear sealing plug setup that handles higher pressure loads better but its a lot more too. Its still only rated for 120grV loads though "officially".
|
|
|
|
Post by omidv on Jan 1, 2020 12:12:19 GMT -5
Well that’s definitely good to know for sure. I definitely like using black horn and most likely will only load 110 grain charges but I’ll let my gun decide. What projectile do you use in your mountaineer? Do you shoot sabotless?
|
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 1, 2020 13:04:03 GMT -5
Easiest bullet to get to shoot is the Parker BE. Its not too fussy about the amount of powder needed. A 300gr BE with 84gr by weight of BH209 is right around 2100fps from a Mountaineer 45 1-20. Bullets like the SSTs and FTXs can be a real pain to get to shoot. Jackets are just too tough to obturate easily. Fury bullets are also working well for most of the guys. I havent tried them yet.
I just finished mine but ive shot those loads in my older Super DISC 45. Its very similar but the barrel is a little shorter. Im rather fond of the simple 350gr-460gr lead conical. Very cheap and easy to get to shoot. Blows through a deer like butter even with really low amounts of powder. Lyman's 330gr Gould bullet cast in pure lead or 40-1 is also a stellar deer hammer with just 70gr of powder.
The bullet i most look forward to shooting is the Fury 250gr 40cal in sabots. 2200fps or more should be fairly easy to achieve. They are bonded jackets.
|
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 1, 2020 13:45:31 GMT -5
This is mine Lehigh picatinny rail (bedded) Contessa light weight picatinny rings (lows) Extreme TH stock (bedded) Elite bolt internals in the Knight bare primer bolt body Lehigh bare primer plug Older Knight competition grade trigger. NOT a Timney but its a great trigger. Vortex DB HP 3x12x42     |
|
|
|
Post by omidv on Jan 1, 2020 14:07:36 GMT -5
That’s a really nice rig! I especially like the rings! Those are really beefy with the 4 ring cap screws! Can’t wait to get my gun now! I’m calling Williams gun sight tomorrow to see if they have any in stock.
|
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 1, 2020 14:17:53 GMT -5
Those rings fit true picatinny bases ONLY. They have 2 cross bars machined into the bottom of each ring. You can get them at EuroOptics for under $90 a set with shipping. They are the only 1" rings like it i could find. Next step up for rings like these are TPS XRT rings and those are $130+. Contessa are made in Italy and are very very nice for that kinda money. The lows are a bit too tall but otherwise they seem great. www.eurooptic.com/Contessa-SRL-Mounts-with-Rings.aspxIf you want a nice picatinny rail you got one option....Murphy and its $125ish. Lehigh dont sell theirs anymore. Its way nicer than the EGW. The Farrell is NOT true picatinny unless something has changed. www.murphyprecision.com/Products/Item/1451 |
|
|
|
Post by omidv on Jan 1, 2020 15:45:54 GMT -5
Yeah I was going to look at ordering the EGW base and possibly the Leupold prw rings in 30 mm I have a nice vxr 3-9x50 already. I was planning on making its forever home on the Mountaineer once I get it. I’m definitely leaning towards the nitride finish and nutmeg color. I’m undecided on the thumbhole or straight stock as of now. For absolute rock solid cheek weld I like the thumbhole definitely but for ease of carry and fast handling I prefer the straight stock.
Also I have been looking into the Parker BE as you have mentioned as well as the harvester scorpion pt gold for full bore projectiles.
|
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 1, 2020 16:12:57 GMT -5
The EGW base is 6160 extruded aluminum and they dont offer it in a HD 7075 version. There is a big difference in the HD rails vs the standards. My Lehigh is machined from 2024 T4 bar stock.
|
|
|
|
Post by omidv on Jan 1, 2020 16:32:32 GMT -5
So are you saying the EGW are not any good or just not as good? Could I get two piece steel Leupold bases that are weaver style to work with the prw rings? If so I’d be ok with that. But if I have to go with the Lehigh base that’s fine.
|
|
|
|
Post by omidv on Jan 1, 2020 16:33:41 GMT -5
I guess I’d only want to do it once instead of throwing away money doing it twice.
|
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 1, 2020 17:46:44 GMT -5
PRW2 rings are pretty good. They would work well on Warnes or Loopie QRW steel bases. The problem comes in the eye relief you need. At 4" of eye relief its hard to get comfortable with any available 2 piece bases. No one makes the extended base sets anymore for Knights. Warnes or Weaver used to offer some but they are gone. You cant move the scope far enough forward without hitting the turret. So you are left with either a scope with less relief or a rail. The Murphy and Farrel rail are tall enough for a 42mm obj and low rings. I think my low rings (.815) would work with a 50mm on tall rail too. Mine is a 1" tube though so its only a guess. I dont know the OD of your objective either. If i was starting from scratch i would just get the Murphy. Its stupid expensive but its solid and made for SS. You wont find a better base atm. Here is a video on a friends Moutaineer with that base. Here is a pic of it with a Viper 50mm obj and .830-.840 tall 30mm rings  |
|
|
|
Post by omidv on Jan 1, 2020 17:52:48 GMT -5
Ok that makes sense. Yes my scope is a 50 mm objective and a 30 mm main tube. I don’t have to use that one, I just wanted to. I do have a decent Leupold ultimate slam with a 40 mm objective that I could use but I’ll just have to see when that time comes. I’ll be sure to post some pics when I get it. Thanks for all the advise.
|
|
|
|
Post by omidv on Jan 1, 2020 18:16:35 GMT -5
I just got that video. That gun is sweet! Now I’m really wanting one! Haha
|
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 1, 2020 18:56:41 GMT -5
That very rifle was smacking steel gongs at 600yard and more with cheap lead conicals. Lewis has videos of it on Youtube. I should have bought that sucker when i had the chance. It came with nearly $300 worth of base and rings too for $750.
|
|
|
|
Post by omidv on Jan 1, 2020 19:36:18 GMT -5
Dang! That would have been a heck of a deal!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:24:25 GMT -5
My mountaineer stock is the one that is of a nut meg color.Kind of a medium brown with the black.I think that one is the ''Forest Green",but still a good looking gun.
|
|
|
|
Post by omidv on Jan 1, 2020 20:29:16 GMT -5
My mountaineer stock is the one that is of a nut meg color.Kind of a medium brown with the black.I think that one is the ''Forest Green",but still a good looking gun. Is yours a thumbhole or straight stock? I like the looks of the nutmeg but can’t decide on what to get, thumbhole or straight. I’m definitely thinking about getting the nitride black finish on the barrel. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 10:26:53 GMT -5
I myself love the thumb hole stock.I feel that I get a better hold and control the rifle better.All my guns have the t/h stock.
|
|
|
|
Post by jims on Jan 2, 2020 13:07:41 GMT -5
Some like the thumb hole stock. I have several but would not buy another. Again that is just personal preference. I would try one or another's to see if you like it first before investing if possible.
|
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 2, 2020 13:34:10 GMT -5
Just a FYI, Boyds does sell stocks for Knights but they might not be inlet for the forked recoil lug. Pretty easy to do though. Only a small amount of material would need to be removed.
|
|
|
|
Post by omidv on Jan 2, 2020 16:23:26 GMT -5
Some like the thumb hole stock. I have several but would not buy another. Again that is just personal preference. I would try one or another's to see if you like it first before investing if possible. Definitely I just want to see how they both handle to make sure I like one over the other. |
|
|
|
Post by omidv on Jan 2, 2020 18:34:46 GMT -5
Some like the thumb hole stock. I have several but would not buy another. Again that is just personal preference. I would try one or another's to see if you like it first before investing if possible. |
|
|
|
Post by encore50a on Jan 3, 2020 19:03:50 GMT -5
No more thumbhole stocks for me either.
|
|
|
|
Post by 10ga on Jan 4, 2020 23:13:56 GMT -5
No more thumbhole stocks for me either. X2 on the no TH stocks for me also! Currently have 3 45cal and had a few more, now gone. I tried sabotless and with my needs it was more trouble than it seemed worth. Shoot HSB sabots and 40 cal bullets. Have shot XTP, SST, Fury and Pittman 40 cals. Always use light knurl. All shoot good, better than me, exception is in the original Rem ML 45 where the twist is too slow to stabilize the long pointy Pittman type bullets but the 200 grain XTP and SST do great in that rifle. I have no problem ringing 8" gong every shot at 300 with any of the rifles and sabot loads. Super bench rest accurate no. Better than minute of deer out to 300 and that is the not the best rifle/scope deals. The good ones will do minute if I do my part. Reflects my experience, opinion and needs. Others will differ. Shoot straight. Safety 1st. 10ga |
|
|
|
Post by omidv on Jan 5, 2020 10:53:53 GMT -5
Yesterday I went to Williams gun sight in Davison Michigan. They are a knight dealer. They had one mountaineer there, it was a 50 cal but had the straight stock and I was able to check it out and liked it. I asked the guy helping me if he could get a 45 cal and he thought knight was no longer in business, I assured him they are, they have a website and you can buy them from MidwayUSA. I explained that I want to see the gun first before purchasing. He could not locate any availability on any new knight rifles through some of his distributors and will check further this coming week. So I’m hopeful I can get one ordered soon. Again I’d like to get one in the black nitride finish. I like the way that looks matched up to a matte black scope, as well as the resistance to the elements. So far I’m sold on the straight stock!
|
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 5, 2020 12:08:45 GMT -5
Knight has the Ultra Light in 45cal 1-20 nitride also. It comes with a B&C stock with a bedding block. Boyds has a couple rather nice looking wood non thumbhole stocks for DISC 50. They will need a little work to fit the forked lug....i think. Boyds makes the current wood stocks for Knight im pretty sure but they are probably locked in a contract agreement so they cant sell current model stocks.
|
|
|
|
Post by omidv on Jan 5, 2020 17:53:50 GMT -5
I like the ultra light as far as it looks in pictures but not sure how well they shoot vs the 27” mountaineer. It would be cool to hold one for sure but I won’t hold my breath.seems like no one carry’s knights in stock, in Michigan anyway. And I’m definitely ordering a straight stock for sure if I have to order one. Will the 25” disc rifle trigger mechanism work with the new night Mountaineer replacement barrel? I seen one used on the gun rack a Williams for $200.
|
|
