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Post by sw on Dec 25, 2019 15:20:08 GMT -5
The top gun is a nicely bed’d 10ML2 receiver with a 1.5# SSS trigger and a 26” 40 cal 16 twist PN barrel. I had sent this barrel to RB while he was working on his first 45. Actually, this 40 cal came out before the first 45. I was shooting 195Bs and 200 XTPs, later 200SSTs. These bullets were all knurled . I used a VV110/2015 duplex for up to 2800’/sec with sub-MOA accuracy. However, it wasn’t particularly consistent. I rarely hunted with it. I now have a 40 cal, smooth sizing die and have tried 225 AccuMaxes (4004) . I worked up a VV110/Varget load that really performed well. The very flat base of the AccuMax apparently really seals well. The groups are cloverleafs at 100 yards and sub-1” (3-shot) at 200 yards. 2 1/4” hi@100, 1 1/2” @ 200 and 6” low at 300 yards. It still has 1888’-lbs of energy @ 500 yards. The 225 AccuMax is 90’/sec Faster than the lighter 200SST (rounded base and knurled). This gun shoots flatter than my 45 Rem/Brux for the loads I’m willing to shoot. The 40 doesn’t have a high recoil, actually less than a 300g bullet with 44-45g of VV110 but a little more than most 250g factory loads. I believe a 40 cal retrofit barrel on a 10ML2 can virtually equal all but the hottest loads in the custom made guns. The 40 is shooting 2945-2950’/sec vs 72g H4198/275AccuMax (Rem/Brux) at 2850’/sec. The 275/452 BC 0.300 vs 40 Cal 225 AccuMax with a BC of 0.340. Don’t rule out a 40 where legal. The top gun is the 40, the middle is the RB 45, and the bottom is a used Rem/Brux. This is a chrono reading of the top gun. Incidentally , the speeds were 2941, 2943, 2943, 2949. A 1 time pass os a 416 nylon brush followed by a pass(in and out) with a small dry patch is needed to keep the velocity from climbing.
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Post by ET on Dec 25, 2019 17:10:55 GMT -5
A nice array of SML's and a shooter of years experience behind him. Couldn't ask for an overall better combination.
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Post by quillen52 on Dec 25, 2019 17:13:13 GMT -5
So you are using the nylon brush and patch between shots and still get that kind of accuracy?
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Post by sw on Dec 25, 2019 18:05:41 GMT -5
So you are using the nylon brush and patch between shots and still get that kind of accuracy? I didn’t include all the preliminary shooting and testing. Without any cleaning, the velocity just kept climbing 10ish feet/sec each shot up to 2980+’/sec and it was getting very hard to load. After 3 shots, it got into the 2940s, a dry brush up and down, then a small patch, on the brush, up and down, then shooting/repeating keeps the ESs w/i 10’/sec and sub-1/2 MOA. The loading pressure is where I want it. In time, I’ll try different powder(s) and see if I can get a cleaner burning powder and not need to clean like this. Currently, can skip 1 cleaning. However, the 77g total , duplex powder load is so fast, so accurate, and considering it’s a hunting rifle, I’ll likely leave it alone. 2015 and H4895 just have to be tried. This gun has an RB BP /ventliner. I’m sending the barrel off for a MB (primarily for distance noise control) and to see if I can get my 2 spare BPs modified for full sized/normal Hank sized bushings. The ones RB used are about 1/2 ithe diameter and the thickness of Hank’s.
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Post by quillen52 on Dec 25, 2019 18:30:33 GMT -5
Interesting. I've run into the same difficulties with loading in the past but was hesitant to brush or patch at all fearing I would lose my accuracy. Very interesting reading. I to am interested in the 40 cal accumax for hunting purposes. Please keep up the good work and keep posting.
I have some loads I want to try but it will probably be after the first of the year before I get to shoot.
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Post by sw on Dec 25, 2019 19:58:08 GMT -5
We want the barrel to stay the same, shot to shot. Some guns foul to a certain spot and then just stay the same. I do my 17 HMR that way. It’s extremely accurate. However, this barrel has just kept getting more fouled shot after shot. With 3 shots, it reached a point where the dry brush and dry patch kept it consistent. I’m using VV110 and Varget. I know VV110 is extremely clean but don’t know how clean Varget actually is. I will test others, but this is so accurate and fast!
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Post by Dave W on Dec 29, 2019 14:38:56 GMT -5
Buddy used Varget pushing a 240 CEB just over 3000fps this year. No loading issues with annealed, knurled, full form sized in a ASG Bartlein build. Single digit ES, sub 1/2 MOA accuracy and two holes with no tracking involved. Exit on a mature Ohio buck at approximately 100yds.
Same results at 435yds a couple years ago but with a different load.
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Post by buckstuds on Dec 29, 2019 16:25:09 GMT -5
Was that the raptor version, missing the orange tape targets.
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Post by sw on Dec 29, 2019 20:23:52 GMT -5
Though I have achieved 2940-2950’/sec with the 225 Pittman with 1/2 MOA accuracy out of my 10ML2/40PN, I expect there is a better, more proven , method to achieve optimal performance than what I did.
Again, what I did. I fouled the barrel with a few shots, sized the bullets to a slightly tighter fit than the majority of bore sized shooters do (my conventional 209/BP, ventliner ignition) since the ignition is slower than ignition the LRMPs produce. Even with the 40, I’m using 7gs of VV110 to help create a fast pressure rise. Then as the bullets got harder to seat and the velocity continued to climb, I ran a dry nylon, bristle brush down and up the bore followed by a dry patch on the same brush. By doing this, I kept 5 , consecutive shots, between 2941 and 2949’/sec.
So, the state of the art is to let the barrel foul to a stable level of fouling, and then size for a good fit and have no between shot cleanings .
I’m posting this because, I earlier described what I did which was just an interim stop on this journey to ultimate usage of my 40 cal barrel.
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Post by mrbuck on Dec 29, 2019 20:32:57 GMT -5
These SMLs are certainly a journey . Chris
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Post by sw on Dec 29, 2019 20:42:35 GMT -5
Dave, I think your friend has an ideal set-up. I’ve been shooting the 240 CEBs, annealed and knurled. Your friend knurled his fullformed bullets?
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Post by Dave W on Dec 29, 2019 22:01:45 GMT -5
Dave, I think your friend has an ideal set-up. I’ve been shooting the 240 CEBs, annealed and knurled. Your friend knurled his fullformed bullets? Knurled then full formed. Yeah Lyman they are Raptors.
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Post by sw on Nov 4, 2020 15:42:58 GMT -5
I have gotten another Smokeless MLer: looks exactly like the Rem 45. Its a 40 Rockcreek 13.2” twist shooting 75g H4895 275 Fury 2820’/sec. HIS ignition. On @ 100, 1” low 200, 2 hash marks low (on 24x on S111 scope) @ 300. 1 1/2” groups @ 300 in light , variable wind. 1 hole at 100, touching @ 200. Its a Jimbob rifle. 700ML, wish it were a CF action, but I happy. Plan on trying 273g Hammer, all CU bullets, fullformed.
FWIW, I think my 7/70 110/Vgt/225g Pittman load @2950 is too hot! I reduced the load to 6/60 and am shooting a knurled 195 Barnes/WW @ 2630 . This is my woods gun this year. This is just an interim load.
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Post by jims on Nov 4, 2020 19:15:55 GMT -5
Sounds like a shooter.
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Post by sw on Nov 5, 2020 22:13:53 GMT -5
Buddy used Varget pushing a 240 CEB just over 3000fps this year. No loading issues with annealed, knurled, full form sized in a ASG Bartlein build. Single digit ES, sub 1/2 MOA accuracy and two holes with no tracking involved. Exit on a mature Ohio buck at approximately 100yds. Same results at 435yds a couple years ago but with a different load.
Dave, Your friend needs to thoroughly clean his hands before chewing on his fingernails again. I can’t help but notice fingernails. As a retired dentist, I notice fingernails. As a part time marriage counsler, I can’t help but include fingernail condition as part of the big picture.
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