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Post by epanzella on Aug 4, 2018 10:47:30 GMT -5
I already built a McSavage 45 that shoots great and I'm happy with except for the weight. I'm 70 with bad knees so I need something lighter to extend my range in the deer woods. I have an H&R 12ga break open that I would like to convert to a 45 SML. I assume that using a stainless barrel will avoid the welding issues associated with 4140. I'm leaning away from stubbing as I'm concerned about the small amount of material left after turning the shank down and boring for the BP. ( I would use Luke's plug as it's only 9/16). Using a whole new barrel and lug would also make the gun a switch barrel which would be good in places that have Shot gun and ML seasons simultaneously on either side of state lines. The barrel work is no problem but I see a ton of trial and error in my future trying to fabricate an underlug that will afford a tight lockup. If anyone could point me to a source for premade underlugs for the H&R shotgun action I would appreciate. Of course any other words of wisdom on this subject would also be a great help. Thanks, Ed P
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Post by bestill on Aug 4, 2018 11:03:48 GMT -5
Barrel for this conversion are hard to find. Unless do a custom barrel.
I would suggest a cva scout or hunter 45/70 conversion.
Much easier and very accurate
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Post by epanzella on Aug 4, 2018 11:17:05 GMT -5
Barrel for this conversion are hard to find. Unless do a custom barrel. I would suggest a cva scout or hunter 45/70 conversion. Much easier and very accurate I plan to use a McGowen barrel blank and TIG an underlug to it. I've been deer hunting with that H&R 12 ga for 30 years and breathing new life and versatility into it is my goal. I already have an H&R 45-70 SS which would be the ideal conversion but I really want to do the shotgun. THX
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Post by joelmoney on Aug 5, 2018 0:54:59 GMT -5
What is the outside diameter of the 12ga barrel. My concern would frame strength. I like the out of the box idea.
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Post by bestill on Aug 5, 2018 5:58:57 GMT -5
Most shotgun actions are cast stamped SB1 if i remember correctly and won't be good for custom rifle build.
SB2 version is for like 45/70 i think
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Post by epanzella on Aug 5, 2018 6:45:14 GMT -5
There are 2 things I can think of that would make a shotgun action a poor rifle candidate. One is action strength and the other is the large firing pin hole. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't an SML conversion negate these two factors? The firing pin is not exposed to any high pressure due to the delaying action of the flame channel filling up and the action is not exposed to high pressure because it's contained in the barrel by the beech plug. In a centerfire rifle the breech would have to resist the 50,000 psi of launch. I believe that if you taped an SML barrel to a broom handle it would be OK if it could just withstand the recoil. If I'm full of crap on this don't hesitate to let me know, this is only my second build and my first break open so I'm no expert. Everything I know about SML's I learned from you guys on this site. Thx for any incite.
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Post by epanzella on Aug 5, 2018 6:52:38 GMT -5
What is the outside diameter of the 12ga barrel. My concern would frame strength. I like the out of the box idea. I miked the barrel a while ago. Don't remember the exact number but it's a bit over an inch and doesn't taper until after it clears the action. I'm concerned it's a bit small for stubbing a 45 bore with BP which is why I want to replace the whole barrel and lug. This also leaves the 12 ga rifled barrel intact giving me a switch barrel gun. I realize converting my 45-70 handi is a more practical conversion but this is a fun project and this old warhorse has put well over a ton of meat in my freezer thru the years. I would luv to give it a face lift.
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Post by bestill on Aug 5, 2018 6:58:44 GMT -5
If use 209 system action basically sees shotgun pressures if lrmp system action basically sees rifle pressure.
If i remember correctly sb2 action is what was always recommended. There's still recoil on hinge pin to deal with.
Broom hanle will hold barrel but shoot primer right out back
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Post by epanzella on Aug 5, 2018 7:11:36 GMT -5
If use 209 system action basically sees shotgun pressures if lrmp system action basically sees rifle pressure. If i remember correctly sb2 action is what was always recommended. There's still recoil on hinge pin to deal with. Broom hanle will hold barrel but shoot primer right out back LOL! Definitely need safety glasses for a broom handle Mauser! Kidding aside, I had planned to us Luke's BP for 209's. The SML won't have as much recoil as the 3 inch shotgun slugs. That gun gave me a few "Weatherby eyebrows" thru the years. The load I use in my McSavage is 200gr pill w/blue sabot and 62 gr RL7. It heads out about 2600fps. I don't actually need that much power but lighter loads don't shoot as well in the Savage.
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Post by AJ on Aug 5, 2018 8:25:41 GMT -5
If your H&R is a Ultra Slug Hunter in 12 ga it may have the SB2 frame BUT it is not the same as the rifle frame. The 12 ga USH used a 10 ga frame to make for a heavy barrel 12 ga. It has more metal removed from the front rail section to fit the larger barrel. It may be better candidate allowing you to use a larger diameter barrel in the chamber area. It was also heat treated to make it stronger than the standard SB1 shotgun frame. Greybeards is your best bet for Handi-Rifle info.
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Post by eml9 on Aug 5, 2018 19:43:15 GMT -5
"If use 209 system action basically sees shotgun pressures if lrmp system action basically sees rifle pressure"
Bestill... your referring to only the asg gen 2 plug having rifle pressures to the action correct ?
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Post by bestill on Aug 5, 2018 20:17:05 GMT -5
"If use 209 system action basically sees shotgun pressures if lrmp system action basically sees rifle pressure" Bestill... your referring to only the asg gen 2 plug having rifle pressures to the action correct ? Could be said for most all newer lrmp module systems
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Post by eml9 on Aug 6, 2018 8:31:12 GMT -5
Even the HIS ? I was under the impression the gen 2 plugs were for centerfire actions only because there was no flame channel basically with the bushing being epoxied in on the module end of the plug.. the HIS has a flame channel with the bushing sitting on a shelf inside the plug which contains the pressure ? Am I thinking wrong ? For example the HIS can be used with kash's action but the gen 2 cannot
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Post by bestill on Aug 6, 2018 9:06:52 GMT -5
Even the HIS ? I was under the impression the gen 2 plugs were for centerfire actions only because there was no flame channel basically with the bushing being epoxied in on the module end of the plug.. the HIS has a flame channel with the bushing sitting on a shelf inside the plug which contains the pressure ? Am I thinking wrong ? For example the HIS can be used with kash's action but the gen 2 cannot Imo all module systems require a centerfire approved action. The kask action has a lug pin and bolt handle lug to meet module system requirements. Only module system that is different is asg 700ml module system which is designed for 700ml with basically same design as 209 plug with addition of module.
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Post by epanzella on Jan 12, 2019 17:36:13 GMT -5
Finally ordered a McGowan 4140 barrel in .458 x 22 twist. Decided to do a stub job so I don't have to weld on the chrome molly. I had to make a fixture to hold the barrel stub for boring and threading but that's done. The barrel should arrive right about when I'm getting my knee replaced so I'll something to do while recovering. I'll likely go with a 20 inch barrel to give me a quick handling rifle for stalking. My McSavage shoots great but weighs a ton.
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Post by ported45 on Jan 16, 2019 9:54:58 GMT -5
Go with a 23" so you still have 19.5" of "usable" barrel (accounting for plug and powder column). It will still be pretty short on the single shot action. I suggested 23" because I like my custom barrels to be in odd lengths.
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Post by epanzella on Mar 24, 2019 22:08:00 GMT -5
The rifle's just about done. All that's left is poly on the stock. How do you post pictures on here?
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Post by epanzella on May 4, 2019 14:23:31 GMT -5
Just a followup on this NEF 12 ga to 45 stub job. Got it out over the last few days and after trying 5 loads that grouped around 2 MOA I hit a good combination. 200 gr XTP in a Harvester Blue sabot in front of 53 grains of RL7. Shot 4 groups at 100 yds. Smallest was 5/8" and the largest 1". Didn't chrono it yet but I'm guessing about 2200 fps. Still can't post pix on here. Photobucket want's a paid membership. Naggona happen.
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Post by AJ on May 6, 2019 6:16:35 GMT -5
Very cool. Did you stub the shotgun barrel and thread the tennon? You can host pics for free on postimages.org/
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Post by epanzella on May 6, 2019 17:49:14 GMT -5
Very cool. Did you stub the shotgun barrel and thread the tennon? You can host pics for free on postimages.org/Yes I threaded the stub and tenon 1x 16". I'm real happy with the way my first stub job came out. The rust bluing came out perfect and the gun shoots moa with the right combination. This gun is an old friend that I've been hunting with as a 12 ga rifled bbl for 30 years. It's good to give it a facelift. Got the pictures finally! groups are @ 100 yds. orange squares are 2 inches square. Thx [img src=" i.postimg.cc/fV5khWzY/DSC-0700.jpg" src=" " alt=" "]
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Post by joelmoney on May 7, 2019 16:32:54 GMT -5
Thanks for the update. Very interesting setup.
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Post by AJ on May 10, 2019 15:57:55 GMT -5
Very cool! The super fancy multi-thousand dollar builds made from the best parts you can buy are ok to look at but I am more impressed from good old ingenuity and making something work well. Your setup will kill critters just as dead as anything else I have seen on this forum.
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Post by joelmoney on Jul 29, 2021 11:37:36 GMT -5
Guess a 12ga muzzleloader has been done. Dose not look inexpensive or simple though.
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