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Post by Dunthat on Oct 15, 2017 20:56:10 GMT -5
I never could get Barnes all copper bullets to shoot without using a booster to help with the obturation of the bullet....
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Post by jims on Oct 15, 2017 21:35:19 GMT -5
The Parker Match Hunters in about that weight I believe are .452 in diameter. They might just fit right and be the ticket.
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Post by jp81 on Oct 22, 2017 14:43:58 GMT -5
Well I got some Parker be 275gr and veggie wads (be and match hunters are both .451 according to website and a lot of people have good luck with the be). 4 shots 55 gr 4198 at 100yds A light knurl and they fit snug Shots 1 and 4 are little over an inch apart Shots 2 and 3 are little over an inch apart Problem is the two groups are about 8” apart, about 4” to either side of the bullseye I may not be a crack shot but I know I can shoot better than that. It’s 2 weeks to season and looks like I’m going to have to get the old knight wolverine back out or go back to the 200gr sst which shoots good but I don’t have a lot of confidence in its ability on deer. Does anyone have any ideas that might get me on tract? The bullets I have are 200gr sst 40cal, 195gr Barnes 40 cal, 275gr Barnes.451, and 275gr Parker be .451 I have wool and veggie wads, h4198 powder and cci magnum primers
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Post by psm207 on Oct 22, 2017 15:21:18 GMT -5
Well I got some Parker be 275gr and veggie wads (be and match hunters are both .451 according to website and a lot of people have good luck with the be). 4 shots 55 gr 4198 at 100yds A light knurl and they fit snug Shots 1 and 4 are little over an inch apart Shots 2 and 3 are little over an inch apart Problem is the two groups are about 8” apart, about 4” to either side of the bullseye I may not be a crack shot but I know I can shoot better than that. It’s 2 weeks to season and looks like I’m going to have to get the old knight wolverine back out or go back to the 200gr sst which shoots good but I don’t have a lot of confidence in its ability on deer. Does anyone have any ideas that might get me on tract? The bullets I have are 200gr sst 40cal, 195gr Barnes 40 cal, 275gr Barnes.451, and 275gr Parker be .451 I have wool and veggie wads, h4198 powder and cci magnum primers What is your optic set-up on the Handi? Scope and scope base, or iron sights?
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Post by cvadave on Oct 22, 2017 15:22:36 GMT -5
A friend of mine has the Module system in his scout, and we just started playing with it last week, took it out today and he is doing under 1 inch group at 100 yards using 56 to 58 gr of IMR 4198, Parker 250 and 275 BE'S, and the new Fury 275 Bonded Bullets with a wool wad. My Scout with the screw in modules, shooting 60 gr of 4198, with the Parker 270 E Max, with out a wad will do 4 shots under an inch at a 100 yards and 3 shots in a inch at 200 yards. They will shoot very accurate when you find the set up it likes. I tried the veg wads and the group opened up. Do you have another scope to try?
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Post by jp81 on Oct 22, 2017 16:08:09 GMT -5
Scope is a vortex diamondback 3.5-10x50 that I bought new for this conversion. Base and rings are all good and snug. I kinda ruled out the scope when I shot a good group earlier this summer with the 200 sst but that may have just been a fluke. I guess I can try the ssts again to try and rule that out. I do have a new low end Nikon I could try.
One thing I thought of is about the time I switched from the ssts I ran out of the w209 primers I was using and bought some cci magnum primers( none of the local stores had f209a in stock and shipping is ridiculous on that hazardous stuff). Is there a chance that primers could make that much difference?
Thanks
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Post by Dunthat on Oct 22, 2017 16:38:24 GMT -5
Sounds to me that something is moving in your scope...250-275 BE's are probably the most accurate bullet on the market...these SML are tough on scopes
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Post by psm207 on Oct 22, 2017 16:48:35 GMT -5
Changing the primer can affect accuracy. However I cannot understand the groupings having a different point of impact (POI).
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Post by psm207 on Oct 22, 2017 16:53:26 GMT -5
What scope mount and/or rings are you using?
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Post by Dave W on Oct 22, 2017 17:42:38 GMT -5
Mount the scope on another rifle with a proven load, then you will know it is not the scope. Never shot a group that poorly ever with a BE, they might be grenades but they are accurate grenades.
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Post by jp81 on Oct 22, 2017 17:43:44 GMT -5
Not sure what brand they are the base was on the barrel when I bought it and the rings are some I already had
Thanks
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Post by psm207 on Oct 22, 2017 18:00:37 GMT -5
Have you ever been able to shoot good consistent groups?
I assume the base is "one piece". Despite having tight base screws, I've encountered loose bases. I prefer bedding most all of my bases to the action. I'm not implying that you definitely have base movement, but this should be confirmed.
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Post by jp81 on Oct 22, 2017 19:54:17 GMT -5
I can shoot consistent groups with all of my other rifles this is the only one I’ve ever really had any trouble with.
I will take the scope off and be sure the base is tight and probably do as recommended and put the scope on another rifle (that I know is a tack driver) and make sure it’s ok. It will probably be next weekend before I get another chance to shoot but in the meantime I’ll check the base.
Thanks
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Post by cvadave on Oct 22, 2017 20:02:26 GMT -5
If you have another scope, put it on and sight in with it, if the scope was the problem, then you would be sighted in and ready to use for hunting. Then send the other one in for repairs.
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Post by jp81 on Oct 27, 2017 16:40:14 GMT -5
Well I bedded the base and put another scope on that I know is good and I can’t say there’s much improvement.
I got out another rifle and shot it to make sure I’m not the problem and 3 shots just over an inch at 100. Sml- almost 6”. I’ve put just so much time and money into this thing it is almost sickening. Nothing I try seems to help. All I can think of now is backing way down on the powder charge
Any other ideas?
Thanks
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Post by psm207 on Oct 27, 2017 17:51:27 GMT -5
My H&R preferred light loads.
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Post by psm207 on Oct 27, 2017 18:01:08 GMT -5
jp81 - what loads are you currently using?
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Post by jp81 on Oct 27, 2017 19:58:26 GMT -5
Today I used 55gr h4198, cci magnum primer, 275gr Parker be and a dry wool wad
I don’t know if this means anything but every group I’ve shot so far with the Parker’s have been dead on as far as elevation but spread out 5 to 6” left to right, just seems strange to me.
Thanks for the help
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Post by AJ on Oct 27, 2017 20:00:15 GMT -5
The Handi-Rifle is finicky about forend placement on the bags when you shoot. Make sure you are consistent in gun placement. Another thing is the trigger, the lock time is a lot slower than bolt guns. The best way I found to shoot these guns is squeeze the trigger and hold it back until I recover from recoil, then release the grip on the trigger. I tested the energy transfer to the trigger by placing a dowel rod in the bore and dry firing everything from flicking the trigger to exaggerating the squeeze and watched how far the dowel rod traveled. I have 7 barrels for the Handi Rifles and each of them will shoot MOA or under groups at 100 yards.
One drawback I have found is the bore diameters are not consistent from muzzle to breech. My Buffalo Classic is loose at the muzzle and tightens up a lot the last few inches before the bullet reaches the powder. I have not shot .45 cal bullets in it. I have shot the Harvester Lt Blue sabot with 200 gr SST and 250 gr Fury star tips and they shoot MOA with no problems. I shot 50 and 55 gr of IMR 4198 with no wad.
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Post by jp81 on Oct 29, 2017 11:35:37 GMT -5
The Handi-Rifle is finicky about forend placement on the bags when you shoot. Make sure you are consistent in gun placement. Another thing is the trigger, the lock time is a lot slower than bolt guns. The best way I found to shoot these guns is squeeze the trigger and hold it back until I recover from recoil, then release the grip on the trigger. I tested the energy transfer to the trigger by placing a dowel rod in the bore and dry firing everything from flicking the trigger to exaggerating the squeeze and watched how far the dowel rod traveled. I have 7 barrels for the Handi Rifles and each of them will shoot MOA or under groups at 100 yards. One drawback I have found is the bore diameters are not consistent from muzzle to breech. My Buffalo Classic is loose at the muzzle and tightens up a lot the last few inches before the bullet reaches the powder. I have not shot .45 cal bullets in it. I have shot the Harvester Lt Blue sabot with 200 gr SST and 250 gr Fury star tips and they shoot MOA with no problems. I shot 50 and 55 gr of IMR 4198 with no wad. [ My barrel is some tighter at the breech end as well Thanks
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Post by psm207 on Oct 30, 2017 5:22:19 GMT -5
jp81 - Have you tried a saboted load?
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Post by jp81 on Oct 30, 2017 9:14:43 GMT -5
jp81 - Have you tried a saboted load? I have tried 200sst and 195 Barnes sabots. I did get the sst to shoot decent but I’m not real confident in them for deer hunting although that’s probably what I’ll end up using. I’m going to try all of the different bullets I have using 45gr powder to see if that helps if I can get time. Season starts Saturday so I’m cutting it close. Thanks
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Post by psm207 on Oct 30, 2017 19:53:56 GMT -5
jp81 - Have you tried a saboted load? I have tried 200sst and 195 Barnes sabots. I did get the sst to shoot decent but I’m not real confident in them for deer hunting although that’s probably what I’ll end up using. I’m going to try all of the different bullets I have using 45gr powder to see if that helps if I can get time. Season starts Saturday so I’m cutting it close. Thanks What sabot are you using and does the bullet/sabot combination load snugly?
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Post by cvadave on Oct 30, 2017 21:40:01 GMT -5
What barrel did you get, I know it was a 45/70. What is the set up. CVA Scout ?
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Post by jp81 on Oct 30, 2017 23:03:19 GMT -5
I shoot the sst with lbh sabots and they do fit pretty snug I’ve tried the Barnes 195 gr with lbh and the brown sabots that came with them. They are snug with lbh and really tight with the brown ones but neither shoot very good.
The setup is a handi rifle with buffalo classic barrel that was converted by ASG
Thanks
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