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Post by vabuckhunter on Feb 2, 2016 18:49:46 GMT -5
Does anybody know were to get them ? I heard their was a problem with the base ??
Thanks Everybody |
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Post by jims on Feb 2, 2016 19:12:17 GMT -5
I thought Arrowhead listed above sold them. He is also lwh723, Luke on this board.
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edk
Forkhorn
Posts: 58
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Post by edk on Feb 2, 2016 19:22:28 GMT -5
Not sure what part of VA a your in but Greentop had them last time I was in there.
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Post by Savage Shooter on Feb 2, 2016 21:05:05 GMT -5
Does anybody know were to get them ? I heard their was a problem with the base ??
Thanks Everybody Buyer be warned! Yes there is a problem with the latest lot #! They average .3999" to start the problems and then to add to it the base is SMALLER diameter AND has a sharp edge and is slightly concave. This is the first lot # in several years that blows sabots with even mildest of loads. Dave D and I have both contacted Barnes about this and don't see much desire from them to fix it. Older lot # 4465 is on the right! These will shoot, the new ones on the left will NOT.  Sanding the base and changing base to .040 radius helped but will not overcome the .3994-5 base diameter without knurling. Reworked base, this is the same bullet on the left in the pic above.  I am not happy with Barnes at the moment! Guess that building a .400" bullet is really hard for a major bullet maker! LOL  Best thing we can do is contact Ty Herring at Barnes and express. Ty actually told me I would have to shop around for the older lot numbers, yeah right like I can call seller and ask them to go look at package and see if right lot number. |
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Post by Savage Shooter on Feb 2, 2016 21:24:56 GMT -5
This is the reply I got from Ty last July when I got a batch that would blow sabots unexpectedly!
On Jul 9, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Herring, Ty <TyH@barnesbullets.com> wrote:
>
> Sounds more and more like the bullet to me too. When we first started getting feedback from customers that have these high pressure guns, it was interesting to see how the smallest change to the base made them work or not work under these extreme pressures. Our engineers were perplexed to say the least. They couldn't believe the very small addition of bearing surface made such a big difference. But we've not had any issues with the new reduced radius design... even though a few of the lots have been similar to this one (slightly concave and slightly less edge). That is why I thought removing the sharp edge would be the cure.
>
> After speaking with the engineer and the lead guy on the press, we don't know that we can control the base of the bullet and still form it correctly every time ( it requires 12 dies - 12 steps to form). Obviously it can be done because we have made 4 lots since that change. As I mentioned earlier, it is a result of the forming process that occurs when we push the bullet into the nose forming dies and the cavity forming dies. Sometimes they have to hit it harder or softer (they tune the press) to form the bullet properly. So in this case we've made the bullet to spec but it still doesn't work for you due to the concave base and or the sharp edge. I'm going to request they watch this more carefully and see if they can tune it out of the next batch. The lead press operator says we can tune that out every time but we need a greater radius to do so. We already know that the .060" radius reduces the bearing surface and you'll have the same problem - poor accuracy due to over pressure. Back to square one...
>
> I don't know that we have a good answer at this time. I'd suggest you send that lot back for a refund and wait to see what the next batch looks like. The bad news is we just made them and it may be a while before we make another run...
>
> You could shop around and see if you can find some of lot 4272, 4465, 4574 or 5356. These are the lots that have the .040 radius and seem to be working well in the high pressure guns. Lot 4272, 4465 and 4574 look the flattest and have little to no sharp edge. Lot 5356 is slightly concave and has a more square edge.
Here are the lot #s they have on record.
>>> Lot 3029 .3999"
>>> Lot 3613 .4000"
>>> Lot 4272 .3999"
>>> Lot 4465 .4000"
>>> Lot 4574 .4000"
>>> Lot 5356 .3999"
>>> Lot 6425629 .3999" (this is the newest lot number and while they claim .3999 that is only at ogive, at bottom of base average 3.994-5 at best!!!!!)
>
> Thanks, Ty
>
> Ty Herring | Consumer Service
> Barnes Bullets disclaims all possible liability for damages including actual, incidental and consequential, resulting from usage of the information or advice contained in this message.
> Use the data and advice at your own risk, and with extreme caution.
> IMPORTANT NOTE: Always begin loading from the minimum "START" charge and carefully develop loads by increasing in small increments of 2% towards the Maximum load.
>
> Barnes Bullets, LLC
>
> 38 North Frontage Road, PO Box 620, Mona, UT 84645 Phone 800-574-9200
> | Fax 435-856-1040
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Post by Savage Shooter on Feb 2, 2016 21:28:28 GMT -5
Glad I got about 350 of the lot 4465 bullets so I just dropped it and wait and see what they make next run. Would help if anyone who has trouble with lot # 6425629 them send them back and demand money back!
My last email to TY stated "my gosh man your a premium bullet maker and this is best bullet you can build, tell me it's not so" that was in late July.
Really disliked being treated like I didn't know what I was talking about. The pics speak for themselves.
PS if anyone has lot # 4465 I will buy them! LOL
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Post by donw28 on Feb 3, 2016 6:19:22 GMT -5
I ordered 75 from Midsouth and they have the sharp edges. I was an idiot and took them all out of the packages too. At 100 yards I can't hit a piece of paper with them. I'm leaving in the morning for Vegas to attend the SCI convention and I hope Barnes has a booth so they can get my opinion on a junk bullet. And I'm a huge Barnes fan otherwise.
Don
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Post by pposey on Feb 3, 2016 8:15:22 GMT -5
We are a small group in their customer base,,, seems they are aware of the issue and hopefully will address it in the future.
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Post by Savage Shooter on Feb 3, 2016 8:15:57 GMT -5
I ordered 75 from Midsouth and they have the sharp edges. I was an idiot and took them all out of the packages too. At 100 yards I can't hit a piece of paper with them. I'm leaving in the morning for Vegas to attend the SCI convention and I hope Barnes has a booth so they can get my opinion on a junk bullet. And I'm a huge Barnes fan otherwise. Don Big fan too! POUR it on their butts! Bullets like this lot should never hit the market. |
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Post by mrbuck on Feb 3, 2016 8:17:48 GMT -5
Barnes Bullets was at the Great Eastern Outdoor Show in Harrisburg , PA last February . I hope to get there sometime during the week and will inquire about the base change of the 195 gr. bullet if they attend this year . Thanks Savage Shooter for the details of the base issues .
Chris
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Post by lwh723 on Feb 3, 2016 8:18:33 GMT -5
I'm not stocking them until they do another run. But the vibe I got was that might not happen until summer time. As far as I've heard and my experience, they've been willing to take returns on them.
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Post by Savage Shooter on Feb 3, 2016 8:19:11 GMT -5
We are a small group in their customer base,,, seems they are aware of the issue and hopefully will address it in the future. They didn't shoot any better in an Encore Pro Hunter .45 with weighed BH 209 at 84 grains, 4" groups at a 100 yards. Then shot a group out of my old stock and went under an inch. I would think that pretty well covers their customer base. |
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Post by Savage Shooter on Feb 3, 2016 8:23:45 GMT -5
Good bullets have 3 requirement for sabot use of monolithics.
.400" Diameter
Flat base
.035 to .040" radius on base (under .035 and the edge is too sharp and will cut petals off)
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Post by warrior on Feb 3, 2016 8:45:05 GMT -5
Luke -Savage Shooter ----------As always thank you for brining this to our attention. Luke brought this to my attention months ago! Thank you all for looking out for us rookies!
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Post by Savage Shooter on Feb 3, 2016 8:50:45 GMT -5
And thank goodness for Luke, you see since you can't buy 75 packs direct from Barnes anymore even if they release a new lot # it would be next to impossible to order them with any confidence from a big box store. You would have to buy them where you could walk in check lot #.
Luke takes care of us!
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Post by lwh723 on Feb 3, 2016 9:05:37 GMT -5
SS gets all of the credit for figuring this out. All I did was quit selling them when SS identified there was a real problem. Hopefully, they do another run soon, but fortunately, having to shoot a 200GR SST isn't the end of the world.
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Post by rlp10ml on Feb 3, 2016 11:40:22 GMT -5
I ordered 75 from Midsouth and they have the sharp edges. I was an idiot and took them all out of the packages too. At 100 yards I can't hit a piece of paper with them. I'm leaving in the morning for Vegas to attend the SCI convention and I hope Barnes has a booth so they can get my opinion on a junk bullet. And I'm a huge Barnes fan otherwise. Don Same here.When I seen Luke did not have any in stock I ordered 4 packs of 24 from Midsouth.Took them out of the package and threw the sabots out.Seen this thread last night and just checked mine and now I have 96 of the sharp edged concaved based Barnes! Dang it!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by Savage Shooter on Feb 3, 2016 11:59:02 GMT -5
Dave D just told me that he had conversation with Ty recent about this too. They claim they are going to get manufacturing of the 195bx under control and will be shipping some samples to test when they run them. Didn't say when but said they were committed to fixing this! YEAH!
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Post by lakeplainshunter on Feb 3, 2016 12:22:08 GMT -5
They should work fine in a .40 sabotless?
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Post by dannoboone on Feb 3, 2016 12:42:35 GMT -5
Wondering how well said bullets shoot full formed in the .400 barrels?
There have been some pretty impressive groups posted by those with
.40 barrels using the 195bx, but possibly with different lot #'s?? If
only Iowa would allow the smaller dia. barrel!
Seems like all Barnes bullets shoot more accurately in caliber specific
barrels, either smooth formed or full formed.
Over the years, I acquired different weights of .400 BX bullets. If there
is one constant for any of them, it is that none of them are exactly .400,
and they vary in diameter from one end of the bearing surface to the other.
That doesn't help with accuracy. I have been able to get decent (not great)
groups (+or- MOA) by diligently knurling bullets until both ends of the
bearing surface was just over .400 with the "perfect" base radius. That
takes a lot of time and patience, not to mention frustration.
I've been totally satisfied with their terminal performance, but they
would sell a lot more if only they got their act together for bullet
consistency, making them the same from lot to lot.
And yes, if this lot of 195's aren't even shooting in BP rifles, Barnes
should certainly be hearing about it!
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Post by jims on Feb 3, 2016 12:42:56 GMT -5
Luke is correct. A good alternative is the 200 SST with sabots. I have had good luck with them also and IMO they are slightly more accurate than the Barnes 195s.
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Post by rangeball on Feb 3, 2016 13:46:50 GMT -5
I ordered 75 from Midsouth and they have the sharp edges. I was an idiot and took them all out of the packages too. At 100 yards I can't hit a piece of paper with them. I'm leaving in the morning for Vegas to attend the SCI convention and I hope Barnes has a booth so they can get my opinion on a junk bullet. And I'm a huge Barnes fan otherwise. Don Same here.When I seen Luke did not have any in stock I ordered 4 packs of 24 from Midsouth.Took them out of the package and threw the sabots out.Seen this thread last night and just checked mine and now I have 96 of the sharp edged concaved based Barnes! Dang it!!!!!!!!!!! Chuck them up in a drill press and lower them onto a diamond stone? |
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Post by Savage Shooter on Feb 3, 2016 13:50:20 GMT -5
Same here.When I seen Luke did not have any in stock I ordered 4 packs of 24 from Midsouth.Took them out of the package and threw the sabots out.Seen this thread last night and just checked mine and now I have 96 of the sharp edged concaved based Barnes! Dang it!!!!!!!!!!! Chuck them up in a drill press and lower them onto a diamond stone? Yes or any other method to smooth up, BUT still will blow sabots due to inconsistent diameter and straightness of bearing surface exactly as danno posted above, too much (very unnecessary) work! Send em back get refund. >>> Lot 4465 .4000" >>> Lot 4574 .4000" Are very consistent in every dimension AND radius correct on the base! Need to build them like these! |
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Post by rlp10ml on Feb 3, 2016 14:02:55 GMT -5
Just found the packages from mine.......Mine too are lot # 6425629
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Post by rangeball on Feb 3, 2016 14:16:45 GMT -5
That's a lot of lots.
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Post by subcalshooter on Feb 3, 2016 14:25:01 GMT -5
I'll buy some of the reject 195's if anyone wants to unload some, I only shoot them ff in the 40's, so if someone has some they feel they can't or won't use, shoot me a pm.
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Post by bluedog on Feb 3, 2016 15:51:13 GMT -5
PM sent
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Post by doc12 on Feb 3, 2016 18:00:47 GMT -5
I have a still sealed box of 75 of the 195's Lot # 6425629-1 bullets I bought through Luke. If I want a refund do I send these back to Barnes attention Ty??
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Post by vabuckhunter on Feb 3, 2016 21:58:47 GMT -5
Thanks everybody
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Post by jaymiller5 on Feb 4, 2016 15:57:37 GMT -5
I have pretty much stopped using Barnes after a few replies from them concerning unwillingness to do what other vendors already do. Sucks because they are awesome bullets but terrible consistency and quality control.
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