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Post by rangeball on Jan 21, 2009 10:59:21 GMT -5
In the past several months I've read and hung out a bunch on this forum, and have never seen reference to Hawk bullets. www.hawkbullets.com/maintest.htmDuring my last discussion with Dan Dewitt at SMI, he told me they were testing a prototype of Hawk's that has the same jacket thickness and .458 diameter as the BO but is 250 grains. Looks like Hawk does already offer a 300 grain version, as well as others that should work well. Wondering if there is a reason I've not seen this bullet used and reported on? Looks like costs are reasonable, and unless I'm misunderstanding their info, they do small scale special orders as well if a guy really wanted something custom... With their "soft" copper jacket approach, I also wonder if their .50 300 grain HP wouldn't be a nice choice for .50 sabotless? |
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 21, 2009 11:47:54 GMT -5
Some board members got a special run of the 250gr spitzers last year and early results IIRC were not spectacular. Maybe those guys can pitch in on their results.
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Post by craigf on Jan 21, 2009 11:55:03 GMT -5
A few of us went in and ordered some of them. We could not get them to shoot well, including the 250 grain. That is not to say that someone can get the to shoot. Also, the 250 grain has a very small bearing surface, too small for us.
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Post by edge on Jan 21, 2009 12:00:57 GMT -5
SNIP Also, the 250 grain has a very small bearing surface, too small for us. Sabotless? edge. |
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Post by Dave W on Jan 21, 2009 15:35:12 GMT -5
SNIP Also, the 250 grain has a very small bearing surface, too small for us. Sabotless? edge. Not in my gun, erratic groups, might need more pressure or maybe Rich was right about them. |
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larry
8 Pointer
Posts: 172
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Post by larry on Jan 21, 2009 17:44:29 GMT -5
Sent all of mine to P Posey. I think he was going to try sabotless.
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Post by rangeball on Jan 22, 2009 9:16:33 GMT -5
Thanks. So is it something in their construction that perhaps has them out of concentricity that causes the poorer accuracy?
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Post by KerryB on Jan 22, 2009 11:24:47 GMT -5
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Post by edge on Jan 22, 2009 11:33:21 GMT -5
Kerry, are those the 250 or the 300 grain bullets?
edge.
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Post by craigf on Jan 22, 2009 12:19:02 GMT -5
Here is a picture of a 250, 275, and 300 grain Hawk.  |
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Post by edge on Jan 22, 2009 12:36:02 GMT -5
Thanks for the pictures, and looking at them I wonder if the large base radius causes problems, especially in a sabot. Perhaps it acts like an undersized bullet and lets the sabot move around too much.
Does the Barnes BO have a large base radius like the Hawks?
edge.
PS Is the BO an open base bullet also?
PPS If the BO does not have a large radius, then a washer in the sabot might help the Hawks!
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Post by fowlplay on Jan 22, 2009 14:49:01 GMT -5
That was my first thoughts when I saw Kerry's picture. That radius is so big it almost look like a boatail bullet. It would be interesting to see what type of accuracy if someone would use a TMZ sabot designed for boatails. Judging by looks only, these bullets should fly like the BO.
Steve
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Post by craigf on Jan 22, 2009 15:16:17 GMT -5
The BO has a flat side/bearing surface. The Hawks sides are not flat, the curve of the nose continues down to the base but the sides are not as curved as the nose.
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Post by rangeball on Jan 22, 2009 16:14:45 GMT -5
I noticed Hawk sells sabots as well. Wonder if they are designed to fit their base profile?
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Post by Richard on Jan 22, 2009 17:11:15 GMT -5
What I didn't care for on the ones I bought (just like Kerry's) was how poorly the meplats were formed! It appears as though the bullet stuck in the point-up die and the top punch, which drives them back out, put "indents" in them. Almost like someone was using a hammer to drive them out?? Not my idea of a custom bullet and they were not much cheaper than the Barnes Originals (something like $36/50)  |
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Post by jims on Jan 22, 2009 17:27:01 GMT -5
I thought it was good that they tried for us. I do not know if they could experiment/trial and error a bit more they might have come up with something for us. They did at least step up to the plate, not always a home run I guess.
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Post by tar12 on Jan 22, 2009 18:12:19 GMT -5
You guess....  |
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Post by jims on Jan 22, 2009 19:18:43 GMT -5
Left to right, Barnes, then Hawk
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Post by KerryB on Jan 22, 2009 19:45:27 GMT -5
Kerry, are those the 250 or the 300 grain bullets? edge. The bullets in my photos are 300gr. |
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Post by KerryB on Jan 22, 2009 19:55:15 GMT -5
The BO has a flat side/bearing surface. The Hawks sides are not flat, the curve of the nose continues down to the base but the sides are not as curved as the nose. If i had to guess, i would say that most of the accuracy problem originates with what craigf is describing here. The Hawk bullets are probably sitting in the sabots at various different angles due to the curved sides on the bullet (not good for accuracy). Add to that the large radius at the base not fitting the sabot properly and top that off with irregular meplats and you have a good recipe for inaccuracy. JMHO...................  |
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 22, 2009 20:37:48 GMT -5
I wonder if you ran them thru Smokeeters forming die if it might form the tip better and add some bearing surface.
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Post by Dave W on Jan 22, 2009 20:46:18 GMT -5
I wonder if you ran them thru Smokeeters forming die if it might form the tip better and add some bearing surface. It would help the tip but the ones I ran through my die look the same as before they went through, might increase the bearing surface a 1/32 from what T. Post told me. |
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Post by smokeeter on Jan 22, 2009 21:02:39 GMT -5
I wonder if you ran them thru Smokeeters forming die if it might form the tip better and add some bearing surface. Guaranteed ! I'll bet the problem is the rounded bottom too. try an aluminum disk between the bullet and sabot, might cure the accuracy problem.  |
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Post by edge on Jan 22, 2009 21:03:05 GMT -5
Are they 0.452? Has anyone taken them down to 0.448/9 and knurled them back up? Knurling only near the ogive will expand that area which will tend to straighten out the bearing surface. edge. For sabotless that is  |
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Post by Dave W on Jan 22, 2009 21:15:35 GMT -5
Are they 0.452? Has anyone taken them down to 0.448/9 and knurled them back up? Knurling only near the ogive will expand that area which will tend to straighten out the bearing surface. edge. .4515 according to Hawk. They come out of my .4486 die at approx. .449 or slightly over that. Not much spring back like the Barnes all coppers. The bearing surface is approximately .250" in length after knurling. I did not spend much time with them, they would group a couple pretty tight and then throw a shot out, pretty far out at that. I use what I have left as foulers for sabotless shooting. |
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Post by tar12 on Jan 22, 2009 22:22:03 GMT -5
What I have pictured is a 300 grn BO on the left and a.458/275 grn Hawk on the right. Edge, The BO does not have that big base and much more bearing surface.Following is a picture for base comparision.BO on the left..  |
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Post by edge on Jan 23, 2009 8:25:09 GMT -5
The Hawks bullets definitely have a more generous Ogive radius too which contributes to less bearing surface. I can see where this would cause problems with a sabot, but am still surprised that sabotless nobody can get them to shoot!
edge.
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Post by craigf on Jan 23, 2009 8:25:43 GMT -5
Are they 0.452? Has anyone taken them down to 0.448/9 and knurled them back up? Knurling only near the ogive will expand that area which will tend to straighten out the bearing surface. edge. For sabotless that is Edge, he made .452s and .458s. The ones pictured in mine are .458s. |
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Post by pposey on Jan 24, 2009 11:22:44 GMT -5
I have resized and knurled back up several in my pacnor .45,,,, they are shooting but not that great, 2 inch groups at 75 yards, the bearing surface is short even after resizing to .449 through a .448 die
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Post by KerryB on Jan 24, 2009 12:52:42 GMT -5
Are they 0.452? Has anyone taken them down to 0.448/9 and knurled them back up? Knurling only near the ogive will expand that area which will tend to straighten out the bearing surface. edge. For sabotless that is Edge, he made .452s and .458s. The ones pictured in mine are .458s. Yup, i bought all .458's expecting performance similar to BO's so,.........................no sabotless for me! |
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