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Post by cowhunter on Feb 27, 2015 12:27:33 GMT -5
This may be a question better directed toward Richard or other competitive fancy pants shooters. I saw a video on Youube last night showing this long range "team" of a shooter, a range finder with a high powered telescope, and several other guys. The shooter was a kid of only about 14 years --- crap I can't remember his age. Anyway they decided to shoot a bull elk across a canyon at over 1300 yards. They made the kid dry fire twice before letting him shoot. The dry firing was done as if a bullet was loaded. They killed the elk on the second live fire shot. They claimed they practice at those distances all the time. I'm sure that is the only reason they could ethically shoot that far. Without getting into ethics, this double dry-fire technique looked quite effective. Has anyone tried this or other long-range shooting techniques we may not have heard of? Come to think of it, that kid makes me mad. I never had any family teaching me to shoot elk at long range. They should make that kid shoot several "hang-fire" loads from a muzzleloader and then see how he shoots. He would never be as accurate again.
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Post by joe1379 on Feb 27, 2015 12:53:33 GMT -5
While not long distance , during my time on the job I had many training sessions where tactical instructors would load our magazines for us and place dummy rounds randomly in the stack. They would sit back and watch to see who was anticipating their shots and dipping the weapons in preparation of recoil (also a good practice in clearing your weapon and getting back in the game) . I would imagine the principal is the same here.
Joe
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Post by Dave W on Feb 27, 2015 13:12:02 GMT -5
Good topic, should be interesting. Not a competitive shooter and not long range specific, but if I am having one of those days where I am not seeing the muzzle flash or if things just feel off. I will sit on the bench while the gun is cooling and squeeze off on a " dead primer" between shots. Never did it in a hunting situation though.
Nothing beats shooting in field conditions to hone your skills is what I have been told by the guys that shoot long.
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Post by rangeball on Feb 27, 2015 13:21:54 GMT -5
Balance a dime on the end of your barrel when you dry fire. Keep working until it doesn't fall off.
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Post by jeff on Feb 27, 2015 13:27:04 GMT -5
I have a 1000 yard range and shoot a lot, but a local fella that used to shoot with me, he has or use to hold the 1000 yard record open sights in the Hall of fame in Ohio for the armed forces. Instead of dummy rounds, their training officers would rest a Nickel on the barrel, and if the gun was not live at the pull of the trigger, the Nickel was expected to stay on the barrel. Shooting at 1000 yards is not real big trick with good glass, but the wind is another story. jeff~
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 13:28:42 GMT -5
While in military we would put a cleaning rod in the barrel and place penny or dime on the cleaning rod. We then would dry fire the weapon and the goal was to keep the penny or dime on the rod while dry firing. Doing this with a heavy trigger was tough however you actually learned your trigger breaking points.
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Post by edge on Feb 27, 2015 14:23:50 GMT -5
A drop of super glue and I can look like an expert There used to be a show on one of the outdoor channels called "The Best of the West". It went through a few different incarnations and the "BEST" products changed as the sponsors changed. When they had a non regular long range shooter taking the shot they used to have them get set and take a couple of dry fires to make sure they were settled and ready to hunt. I don't think they went quite to 1300, probably 1,000-1,100 max because you dialed in the range in yards and not mils or moa. I don't think they ever took two shots...at least that they used on the show They used to have The Tip of the Week which was good when they first started but it ended up as a commercial for one of their products so I quit watching! edge.
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Post by fishhawk on Feb 27, 2015 14:38:22 GMT -5
Phil, do like I do. Just lie about the distance. But, anyone that charges their clients $250+ per hour without batting an eye should be steady enough to be a great shot.
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Post by Richard on Feb 27, 2015 14:43:37 GMT -5
Jeff hit the nail on the head with the wind scenario! In benchrest, for most classes...........be it 1K, 600 yd. and the 1, 2 & 300 yard "short range", shooters will be dealing mainly with precision triggers, such as those by Jewel and one or two others and these will be set to 1.5 oz. or less. Triggers like these will make it almost----------Not 100%, but almost impossible to cause movement in the rifle. And mind you, the rifles are supported by very sophisticated rests. For the most part, the shooter practically does not even touch the rifle. We sort of just "hoover" over it. Rest our trigger hand on some type of "brick bag" or other support and then just slightly put skin pressure on it to make it break. You do not PULL it...........you touch it. Benchrest is a game of extreme precision and leaving all that shaking and breath control and physical stuff out of it. The type of equipment and the quality of reloading and its components are where a good part of winning comes from. Then.............you have to know WHEN to touch that trigger! The guys up in PA who first started shooting 1K benchrest started out shooting deer at those long ranges with custom equipment. Somewhere along the way they decided to start some friendly competition and the ORIGINAL 1,000 YARD BENCHREST CLUB was formed. So Phil.............Yes, a 14 year old kid, given the right equipment and being familiar with the equipment could master a shot like that as could you given the equipment. Like Jeff said, shooting 1,000 yard is not that hard. It is all relevant. The target at 1K is just a 10X enlargement of what is shot at 100 yards. You do not need super power scopes? I competed with 24X and some guys on some days would reduce the X to 20 or so, depending on the mirage? Richard
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Post by lwh723 on Feb 27, 2015 17:49:32 GMT -5
Phil, do like I do. Just lie about the distance. But, anyone that charges their clients $250+ per hour without batting an eye should be steady enough to be a great shot. Haha. Nice
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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 27, 2015 19:58:21 GMT -5
I probably dry-fire 3:1 against live rounds. There is not time to dry-fire in Tac Matches, every hunting situation, or every tactical situation but any time I have to shoot long and have time I will dry-fire at least once before I go hot.
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Post by markb317 on Feb 28, 2015 3:03:40 GMT -5
Where I live we have two ranges one out to 1000yds and the other goes to 1760yds . When I started 3 years ago I thought shooting 1000yds and hitting a 12" square steel would be hard, but after doing this type of shooting it becomes pretty easy. You learn pretty fast on how the wind effects your bullet and how to look at the trees and weeds to help judge wind speeds. I think that if people would find a rifle range with targets set every 100yds out to 1000 or so to practice on with any rifle that it would make them a better hunter. I shoot alot from the bench at these distances and also prone because that is how most of the long range shoots around are done. Having a scope that has high magnification and a repeatable elevation and windage turret's is the big part of shooting long range.
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Post by jims on Feb 28, 2015 9:35:30 GMT -5
You are fortunate to have ranges at 3000 feet and 1 mile. Not many have that opportunity.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 28, 2015 11:22:34 GMT -5
I think that if people would find a rifle range with targets set every 100yds out to 1000 or so to practice on with any rifle that it would make them a better hunter. Easier said than done but I agree shooting long will make you learn more if you show up to train and do it often. A trip infrequently won't give you much more than the chance to say you have tried long range a little. I'm fortunate to have ranges to train on but public ranges longer than 300yds are not common anywhere. There are a couple of rifle mecca locations (NC,AZ,etc.) but if you don't live in the west, with access to BLM or NF, you probably won't have that sort of opportunity. A .22LR shot at 200-300yds is a good simulator if that is all the range you have to work with.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Feb 28, 2015 12:16:47 GMT -5
How about this? There is no substitute for trigger time. Right? And I sure aint gonna try and drydire my muzzeloader while setteling in for a real shot...sooner or later your gonna grab the wrong primer. I like to shoot my .22 rimfires. And the single shot works the best for me....everytime I shoot I have to re-aquire my sight picture. This seems to help me. Drop
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 12:45:03 GMT -5
Here in the hills of East Tennessee, we just wet the front sight a liittle. Tends to cut down on the glare and draw a fine bead. Should work in the other 56 states as well. Kyle
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Post by Richard on Feb 28, 2015 13:58:24 GMT -5
Kyle............are you an acquaintance of our president? ?? Love it! Lately I have been pulling the trigger on my Benjamain .25 Marauder PCP air rifle both indoors and out to 50 yards off my deck. Even brought it to the club and shot at 100 yards; was amazed to shoot 2.4" and 2.9" five shot groups at that distance. Richard
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Post by edge on Feb 28, 2015 18:38:08 GMT -5
Here in the hills of East Tennessee, we just wet the front sight a liittle. Tends to cut down on the glare and draw a fine bead. Should work in the other 56 states as well. Kyle Not only had Obama visited 57 States, he still had one more to go...apparently on Uranus cuz mine is exit only! edge.
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Post by bigmoose on Mar 1, 2015 7:33:07 GMT -5
Gunwerks, Aaron Davidson, they make a ML for 5000. SMILE
Be careful Edge, they might send Al Sharpton to see you
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 1, 2015 11:40:09 GMT -5
Ozark said once "when shooting, make sure your teeth are unclenched" This will make it more difficult to jerk the trigger. I think of this and use it everytime Im on the bench. And yesit does help me. Seems.like my best shots are when my teeth get "slammed" together. No its not painful or damaging.....but it is the surprise release I am looking for. Works for me. Thank you Mr. Ozark Drop
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Post by cowhunter on Mar 1, 2015 12:28:26 GMT -5
Greg, I already lie about my skill as much as I figure I can get away with, but that doesn't put deer on the table. What is the difference between a sperm and a lawyer? At least a sperm has a one in three million chance of becoming a decent human. I have the feeling that to shoot over 500 yards you would be better off having a scope of at least 20 power with turrets you can turn with your fingers with high quality mechanisms that move the reticle in precise and repeatable increments. Is that true? If so, are there any scopes that fit that description for under $1000? I like the idea of not clenching teeth. So I guess snipers control their breathing and even shoot between heartbeats. What are the chances of controlling those things when you are old, fat, and out of shape (I'm just guessing here) like Fishawk?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 12:56:36 GMT -5
If so, are there any scopes that fit that description for under $1000? swfa.com/SWFA-SS-20x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P502.aspxI realize that some of you think this scope is no good because it doesn't have a price tag of $1000+ however I know of one person who has one and loves it. The YouTube video is reviewing the 10x42 swfa ss however it's a decent review and I believe you could use it as a review for the 20x also. My thoughts on a fixed power scope is it keeps it simple. Along with it takes a variable part or that could possibly cause the scope to malfunction. It's a 30mm tube and should be very rugged enough to handle the recoil of the sml. Just my opinion.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Mar 1, 2015 14:32:41 GMT -5
The SWFA scopes have a good rep in the practical community but I have never used them. I don't like having fixed power optics over 6x personally based on having carried a fixed 10x for a while at work. It's usable but not ideal. A fixed 20x would be a very single purpose tool.
The Vortex Viper PST line is another decent line I have a good bit of experience with and would recommend if on a budget. I'm torn between a PST 2.5-10x32mm FFP and a Bushnell LRHS 3-12x44mm right now.
Anymore most decent optics have narrowed the gap between good, better, and Alpha.
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Post by fishhawk on Mar 1, 2015 14:55:23 GMT -5
Good guess Phil!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 22:48:18 GMT -5
If I have a shot at 750 and could dry fire a couple ,then I would feel more confident with a capable firearm to make the shot...In frigid conditions ,might be something to consider..?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 23:25:37 GMT -5
Just to chime in, I ran a good deal of 50bmg rounds on 2 straight power swfa's ans they are tough sons a guns. Less than 1000rds on each scope but that's a lot of bangin from a 50. The scope Barrett ships with is good for 1-15 shots usually. I had the one that lasted one shot and puked. Got a free replacement and put it on a .308 where it is still surviving. The 375 that ohioguy and Dave W have right now has my swfa 5-20x50 HD on it and I think that is a good scope for the money. It's over $1k but "suppose" to compare to higher dollar scope because there is no middleman. Who knows! I know that a lot of guys on this board sport optics on muzzleloader a that would get a hefty amount of WTFs from hunters and recreational shooters. To each their own and it's always best to keep it in the budget you're comfortable with.
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Post by lwh723 on Mar 2, 2015 7:48:06 GMT -5
The Vortex Viper PST line is another decent line I have a good bit of experience with and would recommend if on a budget. Just don't over torque the scope rings!
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Post by lwh723 on Mar 2, 2015 7:51:39 GMT -5
As far as the SWFA's go, I've got 16X SS that I use as my slave scope for testing MZ's. Seems to be holding up ok after 2 years except the top turret is unscrewing from the scope body. Glass is so, so, but I think I picked it up used for $200. So for what I've got into it, I'm happy with it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2015 8:21:42 GMT -5
As far as the SWFA's go, I've got 16X SS that I use as my slave scope for testing MZ's. Seems to be holding up ok after 2 years except the top turret is unscrewing from the scope body. Glass is so, so, but I think I picked it up used for $200. So for what I've got into it, I'm happy with it. Thanks Luke for the review for the swfa, up until now I haven't heard of any issues with the swfa. The optics being so so is to be expected in my book. The tracking is something I'm more concerned about. The turret coming unscrewed is a concern. Thanks again.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2015 11:41:56 GMT -5
Just to chime in, I ran a good deal of 50bmg rounds on 2 straight power swfa's ans they are tough sons a guns. Less than 1000rds on each scope but that's a lot of bangin from a 50. The scope Barrett ships with is good for 1-15 shots usually. I had the one that lasted one shot and puked. Got a free replacement and put it on a .308 where it is still surviving. The 375 that ohioguy and Dave W have right now has my swfa 5-20x50 HD on it and I think that is a good scope for the money. It's over $1k but "suppose" to compare to higher dollar scope because there is no middleman. Who knows! I know that a lot of guys on this board sport optics on muzzleloader a that would get a hefty amount of WTFs from hunters and recreational shooters. To each their own and it's always best to keep it in the budget you're comfortable with. Have to agree, it seems to be a very well made scope. Glass is good, really good IMO, I can't vouch for the tracking accuracy/consistincy yet tho, Dave will not allow me to click it. I would assume it tracks perfectly as it should. Very nice scope, no doubt it compares well to others in the same price range, which is out of my league, but it's a pleasure to get to put it thru the paces, while we have the chance, much appreciated.
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