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Post by hankinsrfls on Nov 5, 2014 8:46:15 GMT -5
Guys, Here is another rifle that was double loaded. One powder charge, One bullet, One powder charge, One bullet. charge was 65 grains of IMR4198. The person that blew up this rifle took 100% responsibility for the miss-hap, He did lose his thumb in the accident. He said he cant blame anyone but himself for the failure as he knows for sure he double loaded it.
He told me that he loaded the gun and went hunting, not seeing anything he did not shoot the rifle... A few weeks later he went to the range with some friends and loaded the rifle again. Well you now what happened after that.
The rifle was built on a standard Remington Sendaro contour barrel with a 1.200 diameter very short shank. IMO this contour SHOULD NOT be used for an SML... regardless weather or not you ever double load it. He said he new it was a light weight and that the 65 grain charge was considered its max load,,, BUT,,, to me it is still to light of a contour to be using on these rifles. The only exception is when using brake open action guns and then the owner/shooter of these rifles must know his limits are much lower than those rifles built on center fire actions.
You can see where the barrel split and how thin the wall is at that point. There's not enough metal there to hold these kinds of pressures. Had this barrel been made of chrome molly steel it might have been able to eject the bullets and maybe only bulge the barrel. Or if it was 1.250 diameter for 4 inches it might have survived. We know of several double loadings and most of the time the barrel does not explode like this one but these other rifles had heavier barrels.
The owner of this rifle asked me to share the picture, He wants to keep his name quiet so please don't ask.... Some of you may know his name and I ask you to also keep it to yourself.
The owner also asked me keep the name of the maker quiet, as it was not his fault the rifle exploded. So don't ask. All I will say is it is not from a builder that is a regular on this board.
I can tell you the barrel was made by Douglass.
Look at this good and remember to never double load your rifle or you might also be missing a thumb, or worse.... Jeff.
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Post by stanb8 on Nov 5, 2014 8:55:37 GMT -5
Tell him I'm I'm sorry he got hurt, but glad it wasn't worst. Glad I got the solid Brux barrel and I have one loaded right now in my savage. Have been very fortunate to remember when I have a load remaining, but as we get older we never know if I age may cause a lack in memory.
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Post by squeeze on Nov 5, 2014 8:59:44 GMT -5
Wow! Its things like this that really instill why you have to have total focus on the range. Especially at public ranges, theres always the guy more interested in gabbing than shooting. He starts asking questions about that work of art your shooting, you loose focus and dont follow protocol between steps. I had a double load once. (powder and 2 bullets) No damage, I was lucky there, and the gun is still a shooter. Just another example of how easily and fast things can turn bad. I feel for the guy. BUT Id bet he NEVER makes that mistake again. His missing thumb will serve as his constant reminder. Its amazing how pressures can reform things. I might just leave that gun as is and hang it over the mantle. Theres a story to be told in failure also
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Post by rambler on Nov 5, 2014 8:59:48 GMT -5
The barrel manufacturer didn't have anymore to do with this than whoever built the entire gun.
Hope whoever had this happen makes a speedy recover and is back out in the woods soon.
Thanks for sharing.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Nov 5, 2014 9:13:28 GMT -5
No,,,, the barrel maker is not at fault either,, Just thought I let you know before I was asked.... Jeff.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 9:28:22 GMT -5
That is to bad, I really hope he will be able to recover and hunt again.
Are you going to be able to save the action and make another rifle out of it?
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Post by jsthntn247 on Nov 5, 2014 9:37:30 GMT -5
I make sure I don't double load because of all the pictures yall post on here. I also will not shoot with my left hand in front of the scope either. Man that's scary.
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Post by cowhunter on Nov 5, 2014 11:57:39 GMT -5
Great lesson Jeff. Thanks for posting it. I think you are right on about stretching out the 1,2 inch barrel --hopefully past where your left hand holds the forearm. There have only been a few people actually hurt and it is always the left thumb area.
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Post by pposey on Nov 5, 2014 13:22:43 GMT -5
Was this a sabotless load?
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Post by hankinsrfls on Nov 5, 2014 13:32:45 GMT -5
Was this a sabotless load? Yes.
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Post by Dave W on Nov 5, 2014 13:39:07 GMT -5
Very unfortunate, but could have been worse. That is definitely a scary reminder to pay attention to what you are doing and to have a system to insure doubles do not occur.
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Post by rambler on Nov 5, 2014 14:26:14 GMT -5
Was this a sabotless load? Yes. Being sabotless IMO had little to do with this accident.
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Post by 03mossy on Nov 5, 2014 15:42:39 GMT -5
I also will not shoot with my left hand in front of the scope either. Man that's scary. Just got from the range and I held my left hand farther back than normal from reading this this morning. Be careful out there everybody!!!!!!!!
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Nov 5, 2014 18:34:56 GMT -5
This is bad news and I am glad no-one was killed. Got to be careful. No other way.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 20:46:13 GMT -5
OUCH!!! That's an unfriendly reminder to be careful and stay focused...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 21:01:59 GMT -5
MAN I HATE THAT HAPPENED !! Gosh dangit...I hope and pray for speedy recovery...Plz everybody check your barrel anytime your putting something in it....I was at the range today and was witness mark checking frequently.....I was two benches down from a 14yr old that shot a .308 in a .25-06 I saw smoke come out of the bolt and he looked shocked....The range officer said the last time somebody did that the whole gun blew up......We are human and make mistakes ,that's why you can't take anything for granted when it comes to firearms and smling for double sure.....Be safe ... I
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 21:16:27 GMT -5
308 in a 25-06, that's fireforming at it's best! Case and bullet formed in on step
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Post by pposey on Nov 5, 2014 22:36:18 GMT -5
Being sabotless IMO had little to do with this accident. Well this is 2 different guns that blew with sabotless double loads recently,,,,,,, I double loaded my .45 pacnor in the same manor but saboted and only received a slight bulge, do we have any cases of a saboted double load that actually blew the barrel?
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Post by 500cadillac on Nov 7, 2014 2:17:58 GMT -5
The rifle was built on a standard Remington Sendaro contour barrel with a 1.200 diameter very short shank. IMO this contour SHOULD NOT be used for an SML... regardless weather or not you ever double load it. A sabotless double load would likely burst anything but a 1.25" bull barrel.
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Post by rangeball on Nov 7, 2014 9:31:59 GMT -5
The rifle was built on a standard Remington Sendaro contour barrel with a 1.200 diameter very short shank. IMO this contour SHOULD NOT be used for an SML... regardless weather or not you ever double load it. A sabotless double load would likely burst anything but a 1.25" bull barrel. I suspect there's a lot of merit in this post. People want to blame the sendero contour, but a double sabotless load is a beast that's likely to take down the majority of contours, I suspect. With an ML or SML, we need to remember every single time you load it you are creating a potential pipe bomb.
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Post by slipperhead on Jan 4, 2015 7:31:08 GMT -5
I have a stock SS Savage MLII with laminated stock that was doubled loaded by a friend in OKC. Not sure which powder he was using but it was two saboted bullets, probably 300gr XTPs. He reports the recoil was intense and he immediately knew something was wrong. He inspected the rifle...all seemed OK. Then he went to reload and at about 10" from the bottom, the rod almost fell out of his hand because the barrel was so "loose".
I can't see any external deformation, but it may be there. Anyway, this is my current re-barrel/restock project for next year. After test fire, I plan on giving it to my brother or his grandson.
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Post by rickster on Jan 11, 2015 13:30:30 GMT -5
I have used electrical tape over the barrel in inclement weather with many rifle in the field prior to muzzle loading. Once I started muzzle loading I practiced this more often for obvious reasons. Now I do it all the time a much for safety as anything else. Our season here in Ne. is a month long and I will go days or even weeks between shots. The rifle will be in and out of the pickup any number of times as I remove it when not hunting and leaving the ranch. All that said with the numerous in and out of the truck over an extened period of time it would be very easy to lose track. I boiled it down to two safety steps: If there is tape over the muzzle the gun is loaded. If there is not tape over the muzzle the gun MIGHT be loaded................use a witness mark before loading. I feel for this person (read my post under the thread "Witness mark". I have my on story to tell both with a centerfire (what did happen) and a muzzle loader (what could have happened). It is very embarrassing to say the least and not easy to admit but some times we learn the most from out mistakes, if we survive them.
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Post by riddleofsteel on Jan 15, 2015 19:02:16 GMT -5
Old tricks that I learned, mark your ramrod, snap a cap before loading.
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Post by 10ga on Jan 19, 2015 12:28:36 GMT -5
Wow, glad there wasn't any more damage to persons. Another strong reminder, unfortunately at some ones cost of injury. Yeah, safety 1st! And always treat a gun as loaded! As usual, the most likely cause of any accident is "operator error". As always, safety 1st! 10 ga
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screwgunner
Button Buck
thinking about going 45cal sabotless
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Post by screwgunner on Aug 11, 2015 15:56:21 GMT -5
I HAVE A 50 CAL. 10ML II ALSO SS THUMB HOLE AND ONE OF THOSE TALKERS CAME OVER AND STARTED ASKING ME ABOUT MY GUN AND I ENDED UP PUTTING 88 GRAINS OF 5744 AND A 300 GRAIN 458 AND ORANGE SABOT . iT WOKE ME UP AND THE SCOPE CUT MY EYE REAL GOOD. DID'NT HURT THE GUN THOUGH. I HOPE HE HEALS UP AND GETS BACK ON THE HORSE.
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Post by ourway77 on Nov 26, 2015 6:11:41 GMT -5
Long time out of the Loop been laid up with a severe back problem and with this I sold my ML'er (Big Mistake) getting back into things after a new technique (Surgery) when I see things like this it makes more aware of mistakes such as this I have my ram rod marked and I also put a piece of orange paper in the barrel, However I try and not do this at all. Hope the person wasn't injured bad. Bet he will flinch in the future. Lou
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Post by jims on Nov 26, 2015 21:43:05 GMT -5
Good to see you back.
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Post by mimath314 on Nov 27, 2015 9:30:26 GMT -5
Yeah, safety 1st! And always treat a gun as loaded! As usual, the most likely cause of any accident is "operator error". As always, safety 1st! 10 ga Recently fired my ramrod out of RemPac. Realizing some sounded, smelled, and felt different, I walked down range. After picking up a 6" peice of splintered fiberglass, my 9 year old says "always remember safety first." A humble reminder with no injuries or damage to the rifle.
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Post by jims on Nov 27, 2015 12:57:28 GMT -5
Out of the mouths of babes. Glad you, son and firearm are all OK. It can happen, slight distractions. Ramrods are usually not as bad as double loads.
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Post by doggzoe on Nov 27, 2015 20:10:26 GMT -5
Out of the mouths of babes. Glad you, son and firearm are all OK. It can happen, slight distractions. Ramrods are usually not as bad as double loads. But they make for a lot more recoil. I unfortunately know. Did put the rod thru the target high and left at 100 yds.
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