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Savage Muzzleloading Message Board
"The Internet's First Message Board For the Savage Muzzleloader" Since December, 4 2000 This forum is dedicated exclusively for the discussion of the Savage Muzzleloader. This message board is not affiliated with Savage Arms. Please note that any loads used that are not in the Savage owner's manual are used at the owner's own risk, this forum's owner will not be held liable for any damage to equipment from using said loads. DO NOT USE SMOKELESS POWDER IN ANY MUZZLELOADER OTHER THAN THE SAVAGE
Edge: thanks for finding such an interesting and informative article. These company's got many of these lawyers from Harvard and Stanford in the 70s and 80s when they were teaching "sum zero" economics (win at all costs) and greed is good ethics. They advised Enron into oblivion and they formed a consulting company called McKinsey that taught insurance company's to forget the duty of good faith. There was a case here where farmers claimed DiPont sold bad insecticide. DuPont's attorneys denied it for years, then their own secret tests were discovered that showed the stuff killed plants. Eventually they found out that the workers in a Carribean plant had mixed the insecticide in a giant vat that had herbicide in it and had not been cleaned out. A clear case of double loading. Unfortunately the attorneys are rarely disbarred. Savage had this case won, but the judge that threw the case out for having insufficient experts got reversed on appeal.
Savage will probly appeal this and perhaps at least get the settlement reduced.
I know of one guy that thought he was getting $2.1 million but after the appeal ended up with $240k.
There was a big businessman here in town that got busted for money laundering all the drug dealers money. Nailed him to the wall guilty and was sentenced to like 12 years. They were celebrating at the Federal prosecutors office bragging how it was a victory in the war against drugs and the infrastructure supporting it. Then the appeal started and he was released after serving 6 months to work on his appeal and "health reasons", then about a year after that there was the trial on the appeal. Still found him guilty but his new sentence,,, time served.... The prosecutor called foul but nothing happened.
The tricky stuff is best left to those who are highly experienced in operating at the ragged edge of stability and sanity.
This, to be frank made me wonder as to what happens inside the barrel steel when I shoot mine. And SS is what i have. Have had it for many years now. Mine also has open sights on it. Wonder what is the next step in all this. Whatever the outcome of the lawsuit is, what are we to think of all this? Someone already mentioned the conversion as looking better and better.
I think your right about that edge they now go from a few to many law suits. From all the legal documents provided its obvious to me savage had metallurgy problems with some of their barrels.
So,the case will proceed in my understanding. Will there be a determination regarding safety of the barrels that will lead to a recall or this case will be just about personal injury etc.? My concern is really about safety. I loved my ML-II so much. My friend converted to ML-II right away seeing mine. Now I'm not sure if I should talk to him about it and make him aware of this.
IMO, if you use book or near book loads you are safe.
If you do not feel safe then send a certified letter to Savage and tell them that you heard about this lawsuit and that they tell you for the record ( in writing ) that your rifle is safe or they buy it back. You do not need to threaten a lawsuit just their certification in writing...I suspect a return authorization will be in the return mail.
Someone already mentioned the conversion as looking better and better.
Just one more headache the conversion cures! I really like my Savage CF's....they are all shooters, but the MLII factory barrel was horrible (and that's being kind). And that hole for the rear sight always made me nervous, especially after viewing photos of a few failures.
The trouble with atheists is that they have no one to talk to when they are alone! Evolutionists and Creationists alike reject the truth.
Gentlemen, thanks for your replies! Here is where I'm at. I've spent quite some time and money improving my ML2. Third pillar New DuraMaxx stock. Glass Bedded. Ramrod holder bedded free-floated into stock. Dednutz one piece scope base/rings glassbedded to the rifle
Thought I've arrived and now this.
Last Edit: Jul 1, 2015 20:06:22 GMT -5 by olegburn
I tend to agree with Edge. If you shoot book loads you should be safe. But here is the problem. The typical MLII shooter is not as sophisticated as the members here, and particularly with regard to safety and double loading. It could be that all the Savage failures were double loaded. But that does not get Savage off the hook. To double load is human. The law requires manufacturers to build products that are safe for the use, and foreseeable misuse of a product. Tom Post builds his muzzleloader with a pressure release system so that when you double load a little cap gives way and you avoid injury. I think the custom barrels like Pac Nor typically only bulge because of their strength. I liked my Savage, but if I were still shooting one I would convert it or be ultra careful about double loading.
If it was all operator error why didn't any of the blued cm barrels blow? Did only idiots buy the stainless and the smart guys bought the blued? That doesn't seem logical to me. that's another reason why I think there was some metallurgy problems involved.
If it was all operator error why didn't any of the blued cm barrels blow? Did only idiots buy the stainless and the smart guys bought the blued? That doesn't seem logical to me. that's another reason why I think there was some metallurgy problems involved.
Guys that like fancy guns generally are stupid
Actually I don't know how many are SS and how many are chrome moly but your point is valid. 4130/4140 when properly heat treated is fairly forgiving, and the range is very wide for hardness, toughness and strength. Except for my Knight I have never had a SS barrel since you need to "tone" it down or it sticks out like a sore thumb in the woods!
400 series stainless is not as forgiving and I'm sure the actual alloy was probably picked for ease of machinability and not for strength.
I too would like to know the ratio of SS to CM barrels that have actually burst and not just bulged.
Please tell me why people with mesothelioma still need lawyers? You are going to die from asbestos and there is a trust fund for you...why should a lawyer need to be involved at this point?
I know a guy who had a court case of brutality against the local county sheriff's office which was settled out of court and he accepted a lot less than he had sued for. His lawyer had taken the case on a percentage basis. When Craig asked for his share, it came out to be considerably less than he knew it should. His lawyer told him that his attorney share was based on the amount he sued for, and not what he had accepted. Nice.
The trouble with atheists is that they have no one to talk to when they are alone! Evolutionists and Creationists alike reject the truth.