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Post by willraygreen on Jan 16, 2014 13:44:32 GMT -5
Just got word this morning of a SML barrel rupturing. Dont have details yet, but I suspect a double load. the gun was a custom 700 CF, 45 cal. I made this thread only after searching the forum, but I couldnt find my answer. Is anyone aware of a Smokeless muzzleloader barrel rupturing WITHOUT some operator error? I know this gun was loaded sabotless, 275 B.E., 72 gr. 4198. I have heard of these guns surviving a double load, but I doubt a double load like this. Also, is it possible to tell from a picture if a gun was double loaded? This barrel's curvature shows the sharpest radius about 8" in front of the action. Would a bullet not seated to the powder charge be a possible cause? Thanks for the input.
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Post by rileydog on Jan 16, 2014 14:13:46 GMT -5
Love to see a picture . Most of the time a bullet off the powder charge will not ignite . Possible double charge. Like to known barrel brand and contour . Hope he's ok .
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Post by sw on Jan 16, 2014 15:04:07 GMT -5
I double loaded a 50 cal SMI 28" barrel with 72g 2015/300SST. Barrel swelled an almost imperceptible amount just forward of the front bullet. Though it appears in good working order, I think the barrel is best retired.
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 16, 2014 16:12:34 GMT -5
We would love to know the details.
Max pressure would be about 5" down the barrel, of course you add another load that would put the second charge about 7".
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Post by willraygreen on Jan 16, 2014 16:33:55 GMT -5
Is the 300 SST a saboted load or sabot less? I don't want to name any barrels or details without permission. I can say it isn't a Pacnor or McGowan, and it was a stout target taper. I was really hoping to find out if this has ever happened without a mistake made by the user. It just doesn't make sense otherwise.
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Post by rangeball on Jan 16, 2014 16:54:29 GMT -5
Is the 300 SST a saboted load or sabot less? I don't want to name any barrels or details without permission. I can say it isn't a Pacnor or McGowan, and it was a stout target taper. I was really hoping to find out if this has ever happened without a mistake made by the user. It just doesn't make sense otherwise. If it's a 45 it is 99.9% likely a sabotless load. I have never seen definitive proof that an SML has failed without operator error.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 16:55:43 GMT -5
I don't know of a barrel ever rupturing without an obstruction such as a double load. I seriously doubt if the bullet was not seated well the gun would ever fire, I have seen many loads that were seated too loose that the bullet would either hit the ground or be in the barrel. It is very easy to double load a gun, I have come close myself..
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Post by willraygreen on Jan 16, 2014 19:29:33 GMT -5
Thanks for the comments. Sounds like the double load of SW's has to be saboted, so the was plastic to give way. I share your thoughts that it had to be some obstruction, but it helps to hear it from more people.
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Post by cuda on Jan 16, 2014 20:48:04 GMT -5
Post some pics if you can.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 21:45:10 GMT -5
Is the 300 SST a saboted load or sabot less? I don't want to name any barrels or details without permission. I can say it isn't a Pacnor or McGowan, and it was a stout target taper. I was really hoping to find out if this has ever happened without a mistake made by the user. It just doesn't make sense otherwise. I would say it could have been the factory 45 ml barrel if it was me. Just my two cents worth. RR
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2014 9:13:57 GMT -5
The 300sst load in a .50 would have to be saboted IMO....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2014 18:42:44 GMT -5
Just got word this morning of a SML barrel rupturing. Dont have details yet, but I suspect a double load. the gun was a custom 700 CF, 45 cal. I made this thread only after searching the forum, but I couldnt find my answer. Is anyone aware of a Smokeless muzzleloader barrel rupturing WITHOUT some operator error? I know this gun was loaded sabotless, 275 B.E., 72 gr. 4198. I have heard of these guns surviving a double load, but I doubt a double load like this. Also, is it possible to tell from a picture if a gun was double loaded? This barrel's curvature shows the sharpest radius about 8" in front of the action. Would a bullet not seated to the powder charge be a possible cause? Thanks for the input. Just got word this morning of a Snuffluppugus being spotted down the road. Don't have details yet... With a thread like this, we need pics and more details please.
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 18, 2014 21:45:36 GMT -5
We're not trying to bust your chops here WillRay. But this is probly the first custom build .45 we have heard of going KaBoom. So we would like to know details. As my daddy once said "learn from the mistakes of others, you can't afford to make them all yourself".
There was reports of bulging a barrel if the charge wasn't fully seated. But it could never be duplicated in a controlled setting.
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Post by gmaynard on Jan 18, 2014 22:04:08 GMT -5
i sure would love to know the details as a newby to SML the word rupture makes me nervous
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Post by lwh723 on Jan 19, 2014 19:30:33 GMT -5
We're not trying to bust your chops here WillRay. But this is probly the first custom build .45 we have heard of going KaBoom. So we would like to know details. As my daddy once said "learn from the mistakes of others, you can't afford to make them all yourself". There was reports of bulging a barrel if the charge wasn't fully seated. But it could never be duplicated in a controlled setting. Don't know the cal, but I do know a swinglock let go. But it was a confirmed double load. Moral of the story whenever we see one of these ruptured barrels: use a WITNESS MARK.
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a1smokepole
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Post by a1smokepole on Jan 19, 2014 23:50:29 GMT -5
X2 on the witness mark it will save you.
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Post by edge on Jan 20, 2014 8:44:20 GMT -5
i sure would love to know the details as a newby to SML the word rupture makes me nervous As a male it always makes me cringe
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Post by gmaynard on Jan 20, 2014 9:49:50 GMT -5
i sure would love to know the details as a newby to SML the word rupture makes me nervous As a male it always makes me cringe yes there were some of those i was afraid would kill me also,at my age any kind of explosion makes me jerk violently
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Post by edge on Jan 20, 2014 11:15:24 GMT -5
You know it is almost funny the non use of a witness mark with smokeless! When I started ML in the BP days I was always afraid of the bullet not being down on the powder. I was almost afraid if the ramrod was a quarter of an inch off of the powder to fire the gun and would pound on the ramrod, and probably deformed the lead bullets to get to my witness mark!
Today it seems that folks think of smokeless as a cartridge rifle instead of a ML. As a reloader it would be like not double or triple checking the powder in your press when you switch from a target pistol load to a magnum rifle case!
edge.
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Post by gmaynard on Jan 20, 2014 14:48:09 GMT -5
this is probably a dumb question but here it goes anyway.i plan on shooting my new SML this weekend for the first time.how do i establish where the witness mark is,i mean how do i know when i have the powder & bullett all the way down? im sure the answer is simple so go easy on the newby
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Post by edge on Jan 20, 2014 15:23:51 GMT -5
You can do it in several ways. What I do is: When you load the gun for the first time mark the ramrod with a piece of tape. Every time you change components re-tape the ramrod.
Also if you switch to a sabotless load make sure the amount that the ramrod sticks out is reasonable and not that you just could not push the bullet down all of the way! Sabots are pretty easy to tell when they hit the powder but sabotless may not especially if your barrel is tighter at the breech.
edge.
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Post by willraygreen on Jan 23, 2014 21:05:27 GMT -5
I am truly sorry for the lack of pics. Nobody has admitted anything yet, so ..... the barrel looks alot like this gun: www.kcci.com/news/central-iowa/Hunter-talks-about-day-his-thumb-was-blown-off/-/9357080/17739374/-/o9v0r7/-/index.htmlThis news story was an admitted double load, and the barrel looks almost identical to the one I posted about. The story went something like this. Guy hunts with the gun, shoots a nice deer. A couple days later, gives the gun to someone to do some testing. The guy testing the gun loads it, and it blows up on the first shot. Although no one is admitting it, I bet the guy reloaded after shooting the deer, but he didnt need the second shot. He passes the gun to the testing guy a few days later, and doesnt tell him it was loaded. There were no witness marks on the ramrod. The barrel was from a reputable manufacturer, and was a pretty hefty target taper. Probably similar to Kreigers 8 or 9 taper, Blued steel, centerfire grade.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 23:00:43 GMT -5
OK, and once again... Pictures and facts please...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 23:18:52 GMT -5
This is some top secret stuff here! A double load that made an 8 or 9 contour look like that was just about a foolish single load
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 0:05:15 GMT -5
OK, and once again... Pictures and facts please... I agree! I am constantly telling my friends to look up this site and trying to talk them into sml. Get on this site and research this like I did and get comfortable with the information. Then look for a way to build a sml muzzleloader and get started. Then they get on here read this post that is vague in information and they think I'm trying to hurt them. All this post does is stir up a hornets nest and cause issues that shouldn't be. If someone got hurt I'm sorry that it happened and really hope the person is okay. But ALL the information should be posted (And if all the info is not available then don't post!) when a safety issue is a concern. This way we are all WELL informed on what not to do. And we can all learn from mistakes and keep others from getting hurt. RR
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Post by cuda on Jan 24, 2014 13:35:15 GMT -5
That is a old one it was on here a while back. I wish they would date news like that.
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Post by cuda on Jan 24, 2014 13:42:38 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 18:12:59 GMT -5
That is a old one it was on here a while back. I wish they would date news like that. On the news cast it's dated Dec. 2012.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 18:13:16 GMT -5
I believe the video was just to say this new incident was similar to the one in the video. The incident in question doesn't have a story attached, it is just a mystery?
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Post by willraygreen on Jan 25, 2014 21:42:21 GMT -5
i apologize for any feathers I have ruffled. The intent of this post was to find out if any barrels have ruptured without someone making a mistake. This is not my gun, nor did I make it. I have only shared the facts that I know are facts, the rest is pure speculation which helps no one, and I will not post it. I do not have permission to share pictures. I posted the link to the older news story only because the barrel rupture of this gun looks extremely similar to the one in the news story. Again, I apologize, and should not have made this post.
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