expandable broadheads

[kennacl55]

Anyone use NAP Killzone broadheads, how would you rate them?

[wilmsmeyer]

I would rate any expandable lower than a typical well built fixed head. No issues with failure. You can practice with them. Re-sharpen some of them or replace blades. They make a more than adequate wound channel. No fuss, no muss.

What is it with the expandable heads? What are some of the benefits they offer over a proven fixed head? I've never understood it and probably never will.

Almost every respectable hunter I know that shoots all year and is big on consistent equipment uses a fixed blade.

Sorry if anyone takes offense.

[sw]

Oct 29, 2013 18:58:55 GMT -5 wilmsmeyer said:

I would rate any expandable lower than a typical well built fixed head. No issues with failure. You can practice with them. Re-sharpen some of them or replace blades. They make a more than adequate wound channel. No fuss, no muss.

What is it with the expandable heads? What are some of the benefits they offer over a proven fixed head? I've never understood it and probably never will.

Almost every respectable hunter I know that shoots all year and is big on consistent equipment uses a fixed blade.

Sorry if anyone takes offense.

I'm not taking offense, but do consider myself a respectable hunter who has killed(harvested :-) ) 70-80 deer with expandibles, mostly Spitfires and 4 with FOCs. I've never had a failure with any expandible except the Puckett, and the short lived 2 blade Spitfire, well over 20 years ago.
Advantages: 1) larger cut usually1 1/2" Spitfire, 3" FOC, 2) larger blood trail normally, 3) significantly less xwind deflection, 4) less need for stabilization (normally 2" vanes with slight offset is all that's needed) so less drag, better BC.
The FOC (170g, 2 blade, 3" cut) out of my SZ380 has resulted in 4 kills out of 4 shots, with 3 DRT (all large bucks) and 1 ~20 yd run of a doe with unbelievable blood trail.
In comparison with Bear Super Razorhead, Thunderhead, Slick Trick, Xbow Trick (all excellent fixed broadheads, IMO), I've had more success, and no failures (except as previously mentioned) with extensive use of expandibles. I'm afraid that early generation poorly designed expandibles(particularly the Puckett and 2 blade Spitfire), have prejudiced many against expandibles in general. For xbow usage, I don't see how it can get any better than the FOC as it truely flies like a fieldpoint with no steering tendency and with devastating terminal effect. This past month has resulted in 2 does killed with Spitfires, down within <100 yds, and a 18" inside spread, 9-pt that field dressed an actual #210 with a FOC that was DRT. Expandibles for the past 20 years, no losses except those 2 noted, and 70-80 deer killed. Expandibles work well for me. I think early prejudices remain.

[wilmsmeyer]

SW,

You are surely respected and bring a ton of field experience to the discussion. That's a lot of kills.

I have killed 12 bucks and 2 does in my bowhunting life. It could be WAY more but I am only after large bucks in the past 15 or so years. All deer killed with fixed heads. Wasp SST hammers and now the one piece Montecs that are easy to resharpen and super tough.

When I target shoot alot, I am always shooting with broad heads. I can't remember the last time I hurled a field point. I often wonder what the expandable crowd does when practicing?

Always have great blood trails with a good shot.

I guess I am behind the times and prefer to keep it simple. Just me

[deadeer]

Hard to argue with success from either side of the coin. Use what works for you. I have had success with both. I went to crossbow this year and am using Slick Tricks. They are working good so far. Only thing I don't like is the POI is 4 inch difference from field points. So I just readjusted to POA with the broadhead and only practice with those now. The 3 blade Spitfires shoot good for me, but I have to readjust for them also, so I haven't used one on a deer yet. Really want to try the FOC that SW speaks so highly of, but they cost premium $$$ and I have a good supply of the others, so I will have to hold off for now. Good luck.

Jay

[sw]

Some generalized observations:
Fixed BHs are tougher, cut smaller , wind plane more, are more forgiving if hit tougher bone(but not scapula), are generally well designed, have a higher frequency of being able to be reused, may cost less
Expandibles cut bigger holes, actually allow more recoveries with marginal hits, do not hit exactly where field points hit normally(FOC indexed at 3 & 9 does out of my xbow), cost more sometimes, are less affected by xwind, still need to be indexed...

For you Spitfire shooters, the Griz Trick practice broadhead is aerodynamically identical to the Spitfire.
IMO, Pucketts, 2-blade Spitfires, and both 2&3 blade Rages, all tarnish the expandable reputation. Yes, Rages are included in my book and many others' . Rages = Spectacular kills and Spectacular losses, inexplicable losses. Just how could something that bled so much just stop? Don't know; but with a Rage, they can!

I love Slick Tricks! In my 2 SZ 380 quivers, I have 3 spitfires and 2 100g Slick Trick arrows in one and 3 FOCs and 2 Xbow Tricks(175g) in the other. Note: I use Gold uTip Lazer 3 Pros, one xbow has 19.7 g inserts(use the 170g FOC and 175g Xbow Trick) and the other set of arrows have 110g brass inserts and I use 100g Spitfires/Slick Tricks.
With the FOC/Xbow tricks same impact except by 80 yds, the Xbow trick is 2" low, at 60 yds about 1 " low. On Spitfires, Slick Tricks the same to 80 yds. Index the Slick Trick/ Xbow Trick at 1:30, 4:30, 7:30, 10:30. Index FOC at 3 & 9, and Spitfires at 2,6,10.

I shoot a Palmer White Tail Hunter recurve bow: Carbon arrows and Spitfires(125g). Group sizes less with carbon(100% of Olympic recurve shooters use carbon arrows and Palmer limbed bows) and with Spitfires. Use 4" left helical feathers. 3 fingers under. If you are willing to shoot carbon/expandibles with a recurve/long bow, the tuning procedure is much easier.

Years ago, NAP had instructions on how to tune a Thunderhead to shoot with a field point. Worked pretty well.

[sw]

FOC scored again. Nice deer likely 180-200# on the hoof: a far cry from last week's actual 210# field dressed deer. Both killed with FOC. This one was a less than ideal hit resulting in a 30 yd run and fell dead. The deer was moving, I shot left handed, 38 yds instead of the dialed in 32 yds. Heavy masted , but only 16" spread. Needed culled. Farmer/land owner wanted it, so I accommodated him. The huge cut, in spite of my less than ideal performance, resulted in a quick recovery. 5 deer with FOC now: 3 DRT and a 20 and 30 yd run. THIS broadhead does fly like a field point and kills like a machete. 4 of the 5 broadheads are back in use(1 bent). Yes, I like Slick/Xbow Tricks; but if I'd used them today, I might still be trying to find the deer.