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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 13:53:10 GMT -5
Looking for some of your thoughts on this subject, This is a nice eight point I had around the house a couple years ago. I actually passed on him in gun season at less than 20 yards in hopes of a shot at a giant that was tailing him, as so often happens the giant veered off and didn't offer a shot, he won and it didn't pan out. To my amazement this 8 point like so many others vanished from that point on. Never seen again or killed that I heard of and deer of this caliber don't get killed without someone talking. The giant vanished as well, but I saw him again last season in gun season at dark on the horizon, still a giant..So many times we pass bucks and they are never seen again. Just ask Dave.... It's hard to believe these bucks can just lay in a thicket day in and day out and remain totally nocturnal, but they do, I guess. What's you guy's thoughts on how these bigger bucks can just vanish? Cause they have me baffled!! We have let many, many nice 3 year old bucks walk, only to never be seen again.....
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Post by 03mossy on Oct 23, 2013 15:44:17 GMT -5
I have no idea where the big ones go and this also baffles me but just had to say that buck is awesome. You would have for sure heard about it if someone shot it unless of coarse it was poached.
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Post by deadeye on Oct 23, 2013 18:39:59 GMT -5
here in our territory we know some bucks roam approx. 2-3 miles from what I believe are their summer early core area. they are wise & live out there 24/7/365 days a year,here when pressure hits they head to the "no trespassing" areas-how do we know- we usually see them there late in the season milling around after the hunt & yes they mostly go nocturnal & spotlighting helps verify this.(legal in Indiana provided no weapon aboard.
I like to think of it this way-if its not thanksgiving & you smell apple/pumpkin pie drifting in your home-somethings amiss. I notice out in the field the usual vehicle traffic etc noticing work patterns of people in which I don't know but travel near my hunting areas,weekends are usually different & also notice the trucks that are obviously late to their hunting destination. even notice the sound & usual route of the early newspaper vehicle' etc.// imo mature wildlife does too. they take notice to hunters as well
try to get on em quick & change your patterns also-has worked for me a few times. they are not too far away.
hope this helps.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Oct 23, 2013 20:44:35 GMT -5
We found 3 dead decent bucks that we knew due to letting them go last year during the late season that were dead and unscathed. Famished it seemed. We had a mold in some standing corn and apparently there were other deer also that got sick.
Other than that, poachers, cars and tough winters can make some big deer go away. We pass many deer with characteristics that should show up the following year that make them identifiable. It takes a lot for a 4-5 year old buck to get thru the filters in areas where they can be seen. A poacher will see them at 2 or 3 in the morning in a spot light. So would we probably...but we are sleeping because we have jobs. They don't
And, there are smart deer that just do not show themselves unless you step on them.
I have a deer on my wall, actually my avitar buck. We hunted this buck all year in 2007. Finally we caught up with him in the swamp. One guy had hin at 170 yds in tall grass. Only the face and head showed. Finally he got a shot and missed! The buck ran toward him and bedded in one hell of a thick patch and didn't come out. After a few hours, many of us surrounded the patch of swamp bambo with 1 foot of water in it and got him to flush. I got him as he ran 300 yds right at me. When we skinned him it was apparent that he had not been eating well. At the neck we found a small puncture in his windpipe, likely from a fight. He was not going to make it thru the winter.
These animals have a tough life. Not only poachers, cars, tough winters and getting shot. They also get hurt in fights, fences and who knows what else.
Bottom line is that the true big ones that we get have survived the D-day of deer life. Nothing comes easy for the wildlife.
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Post by jims on Oct 23, 2013 21:38:50 GMT -5
I have found some really solid sheds on my property over the years but never saw the buck they were earlier attached to. I do not set out game cameras anymore but did not see them on those either. I do not have the answer either.
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Post by Dave W on Oct 23, 2013 22:27:35 GMT -5
I would be surprised if poaching was a big issue where we hunt-last property on a dead end lane, and to pop one, you would be in close proximity to a house. One thing that has really hurt us, is the group of guys that bought a neighboring farm. IMO They bait (legal) and put in plots, so I think they hold more deer than the old couple that used to own the place. They also do a lot of shooting during gun season.
One thing I have noticed about the good to big bucks that I have seen along the county road and the lane to our destination, even in the dark of night or early morning, they don't pose for you. Soon as the vehicle slows or stops, they are gone.
I know we aren't the only ones in our area with the same problem. Guys that hunt another neighboring property are on a hunting show and their "hit list" has a high turnover rate. Not too many returnees from the previous season.
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Post by deadeye on Oct 24, 2013 8:16:04 GMT -5
I personally have had two nice bucks different years ran out of their bedding area by domestic dogs- the owner of that property lets the dogs start running about 1 month before season opened. witnessed the deer all summer long since bedding area was approx 300yds from my garden, also immediately the dogs got my attention as I watched them run those deer out & neighboring properties also many times.
one we had on camera-3-1/2 8pt-24''-25" probably poached later that year approx. 2 miles away-someone found 5 with their heads cut off that year.
another that weighed 268 lbs field dressed scored 160 killed a mile from here from someone I know.
* think i'm stressed out over owners dogs roaming.
dave- here I know of some food plots that pulled deer to the food lot section so it does have some effect-pull the does & the bucks follow.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 12:25:23 GMT -5
It's just amazing that people can rack up hundreds of hours in the woods, set out trail cams and never see these deer. Just when you think they are gone or dead, they show up again. I Have on a couple occasions given up on a certain deer thinking they were dead only for them to show up the next year. Unreal how low they can lay and be so disciplined to never show their face where humans can get a glimpse. I did switch tactics 2 years ago on a big, BIG one and it almost paid off. Should have... some people strongly believe they can't be totally nocturnal, as for the small farm we hunt, I totally disagree and fully believe they are completely and totally nocturnal from the start of hunting season. First hint of hunters and the game is over. Rut or no rut, they aren't budging. They are staying on the protected grounds of the "neighbor" or going to the food of the other neighbor where they do stand a chance of being harvested.. my 2 cents
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Post by mrbuck on Oct 25, 2013 12:49:34 GMT -5
I think after 21/2 years any buck that lives has a Doctorate's Degree in staying alive . Everyone has posted great observations and they all make sense . As soon as the first thing is just a bit out of the usual the smart ones go into survival life style ! In a small , not much open area like New Jersey that starts bow hunting in mid September the " pre season scouting " is enough to put an older buck on guard ! I think you not only have to be good to get an older buck but you must be very , very lucky .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 20:37:45 GMT -5
It's one of life's great mysteries and one that keeps up hope that "maybe he's still alive and will show up this time out".
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Post by 10ga on Oct 26, 2013 21:15:29 GMT -5
They get smart, they get edgy, they know where it's safe (posted/no hunting areas), they go where most hunters don't or can't go, they get nocturnal.
1. There is one area we hunt that has a 15 acre woodlot in the middle of a big field and the field and woodlot are heavily posted and patrolled and video watched property, I have counted over 65 deer go into that woodlot in the predawn hours to get away from pressure, then they come out after dark.
2. I hunt areas with strings of beaver pond/swamps. When regular firearms season starts, dog/hound hunting allowed, the deer flock to the ridges above the swamps into the swamps and into the ponds themselves. I once watched a large nontypical wade/swim down the middle of 2 ponds and swamps and then stand chest deep in water/mud/swamp thicket for 2 hours while a hunt was ongoing around him. I killed him 2 years later doing the same thing the same place, it was a 35 yard shot and I floated him out, 14 point nontypical. I have killed 3 other really nice bucks from that same stand and seen others w/o shot available, it's thick. It takes hip boots to get to the stand and retrieve game or you wade to your waist.
3. There are a huge amount of "snowbirds" that summer here in coastal VA. When they go to FL or TX or wherever for the winter, usually leave in mid December, there are lots of protected areas that have a lot of deer that are then open to hunting, usually a "sure, after we leave you can kill all you want, just don't let wifey know, they wiped out my garden two years now" kinda deals. We usually jump large numbers of all kinds of deer, most within 300' to 500' of a home, and laying on river or creek banks.
4. Then there are the ones that "go home with somebody else". A lot of the hunters and clubs are very closed mouth about big deer they kill. You eventually find out about big deer being killed but it'll be a year or two later, I find the local taxidermist guys to have the best info. I give them capes I don't use and they tell me all kinds of stuff going on.
No I don't know where they all go but they are smart, persistent, have great hearing and really good at smelling stuff and don't take any risks.
If it was easy anybody could kill smart bucks.
Hope everybody has a enjoyable and safe hunting season. 10 ga
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 21:11:36 GMT -5
As usual, we have yet to encounter a known "shooter" buck that we've left for seed and growing in the past. It has been a slow year for seeing quality bucks, have passed up a couple 140 class bucks in hopes of seeing a "real big" one. 1 of those I am having regrets on passing, I think he was bigger than I initially thought, he was no booner but he may have been close to 150", he was a solid 10 pointer. I guess if you have to debate its best not to pull the trigger, and I guess ill consider him a great potential for next year if he makes it. It all leads back to the topic of this thread, where do they go? Getting frustrated.....
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Post by zakjak221 on Nov 20, 2013 21:47:32 GMT -5
About 12 yrs ago a buddy & I were walking out of the woods accross a field without our guns to get his atv, since we had just tagged out on a couple decent bucks. In a brush pile, no bigger than a storage shed and about 80 yds or so from the farm house, a monster 10 ptr got up and trotted accross the field as we watched in amazment,again, without out guns. Very Painful to watch. Another time in a nursery that's behind our subdivision, I walked out maybe 60-70 yds from where our kids were playing & a nice buck got up and ran for the tree line. He was bedded down,safe as can be with kids playing & people coming/going 70 yds away. I also seen a nice buck bedded down in a tree line facing the two lane road, about 30 yds from the road. They are slick & are sometimes so close,you can't see them.
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Post by wayles on Dec 8, 2013 12:18:12 GMT -5
Don't claim to be an expert , just 60 years experiences chaseing a beautiful critter. As many already know and could only speculate on before game cams. My game cams tell me that they do go nocturnal for the most part. Never had a cam till 6 mo. ago. Rut and a cold front coming or something similar will sometimes result in a pic during shooting hours. For the most part my pics of shooters are in the wee hours. 1, 2, 3:00 am. I watch for things like immediately after a rain stopping during the rut and its still prime time [early morn or late evening] , cold front going to hit during the nite etc. I live on a very small acreage [20] acres in a very populated area about .5 miles from Table Rock lake in MO. so I think this has a large effect on what I see and is probably not typical of a large tract of property. I moved here about 1 year ago. [Moved in xmas day]So am just learning their habits in this environment. Killed a 3.5 year old buck with a bow that was super aggressive. watched him all summer and he was a bully slapping other deer that were larger when they got too close. Grunted him in with live decoys [does] He had only one horn left as the other one was spindly and skinny and was broke off immediately when they started buttin heads. Broke his good horn brow tine off two days before I shot him. Don't know if he had an injury or it was genetic but did not want him breeding my pretty little does. Had 1 min of shootin lite left. Rifle buck showed up 30 min after rain stopped 9:00 am Nov during the rut He was a 3.5 year old 10 point.... The deer I really wanted 5.5 years plus? An 8 pointer could have only been killed for a window about 3 to 5 days when they were on a food pattern. With that said I got a daytime pic of him the day after I killed the 10 pointer. I had not had a pic of him for a Mo. and thougt him dead by some means. Got a pic 2 weeks ago and he looked really poor and run down. Skinny necked and hip bones showing, wish I knew how old he really was. Hope he makes the winter. Previously living in western NE I hunted a private ranch 9000 acres with the Niobrara river running thru the entire length. had it all to myself and daughter. Had both white tail and mulies the deer moved much more naturally and during the rut you could stay on stand all day and have action from mature deer. enough rambling , got a foot of snow and I'm gonna go check my game cams. Never knew how much fun these things were! Wayles
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Post by jims on Dec 8, 2013 21:30:09 GMT -5
For the most part if they get much pressure at all many seem to go nocturnal. The two decent bucks I saw this year were out around 20 to 25 minutes after sunset. That can be pretty dark. Until this year we could not shoot that late in gun season so I would not have even been able to shoot. The deer that come out more than 30 minutes after sunset cannot be shot and I cannot see them in the dark anyways. I may reset my game cameras but when I did use them all the photos for the most part were after dark so I did not get too much advantage out of them for the most part. If I go back to some bowhunting it might let me get closer than the rifle stands I have that are further from the bedding areas.
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Post by dannoboone on Dec 9, 2013 18:32:24 GMT -5
Here in NE Iowa, they turn into phantoms. They just disappear. They leave their huge tracks in the snow, but rarely give one a daytime glimpse of them. The rare exceptions come between seasons around noon or during season when they "know" you are unarmed. For a few years there was a huge 12-pointer which would lay among cattle daring me to do something.
Some claim they will lay out in the middle of a harvested cornfield during the day, and I have found evidence of this during tracking. A trapper neighbor of mine spooked a couple huge bucks a few years ago along a fence line dividing two corn fields. At 300yds from them, and prior to even being able to see them, both jumped and took off like he was shooting at them. This was just after both shotgun seasons, so those big boys were on guard.
I'm certain the huge bucks have seen many times more people than people have seen them!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2014 3:52:15 GMT -5
All firearms seasons have came and went, many deer are dropping horns, the frigid temps have had people and critters turned upside down, and wouldn't ya know it, leaving the house for work today as im driving past the end of my yard, out walks a DANDY 8 pointer right in front of me that I've never seen. This buck has to go close to 150 if not over, he hid well all year and he should be a true giant next year, if he can beat the weather and any incident with a vehicle between now and then. Minutes before leaving and seeing this buck, there was a 110" ish 8 pointer eating within 20 yards of the house. Good signs for the future and a reminder of how well deer can stay hidden for months.
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Post by gar on Jan 10, 2014 5:47:47 GMT -5
as deer age their demeanor changes and thus become more sedentarty during daylight hours, It's a natural part of a deer's life beginning at around 4 1/2 yrs. till you get them or they succumb to some other peril. Good to see you have some you know made it through.
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Post by edwardamason on Jan 10, 2014 17:02:00 GMT -5
I spent much of my younger years tormenting myself over that very same question. At some point a light went on in my head. The light came on and it illuminated this big neon sign that read " How did they get to be that Big and MAture?" AFter seeing that big neon sign in my head I did not need therapy as often nor did I need as massive amounts of prescription medications. Soon after I was able to quit drinking to access being aggravated over it and was no longer needed to check myself into rehab. All jokes aside the really quality deer or mature deer do not get to be mature deer by being dumb. They get that way by outsmarting hunters. Most go Nocturnal when the hunting pressure gets on. Look at all the recourses hunters use to go after these monsters. Hunters use every trick in the book and then some. Many use tactics that are even unethical and still these monsters slip past the "dumb ole hunters" every season. I do have a theory on why monsters bucks get killed. I think it is in several parts and its no big secret. 1. I think some mature deer naturally get outsmarted by good hunters. This much is a fact. 2. I think some mature deer naturally loose their keen senses over the years much like we do as we get older. Some may have loss of eyesight or hearing due to sickness, age or injury. I once shot a mature deer that had a puncture wound to the head from fighting. When I shot it in the open field it looked like it was disorientated at the time I shot it. Upon close examination the wound was quite infected. No doubt he had been living with the infection for quite some time. He was probably bat crazy at the time. In hind sight it was not much of accomplishment shooting the mature buck but he mounted nice on the wall and his back straps sure were tasty. 3.I think some mature deer just naturally loose their heads over the rut and forget about their survival instincts and drop their guard. This is where your beginner to average hunter gets his best chance at trophy whitetail.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Jan 10, 2014 18:22:18 GMT -5
Edmason,
I subscribe to your thoughts exactly.
I would add that some are never seen again because of being hit by cars when they are rack-less, die of starvation in a harsh winter after a long rut or an injury. One other probability is relocation after a bad season of hard pressure. I think this is rare though. Bucks tend to operate pretty good on ground that they know.
We killed a big buck (actually its my avitar buck) in 2007. We knew about him and had a few glimpses of him. He showed up in the swamp staring at my buddy climbing into his stand at 11:00 am from 180 yds away. An hour passed before he got a shot with his ML. MISSED. And the deer ran toward him into a terrible thick bog with 10 ft tall swamp weeds. Later on, a few guys trampled the entire 1/2 acre bog for 15 minutes while my buddy held his ground in his tree stand watching for an escape. I waited on a pond bank 400 yds away which was a good escape route. NOTHING came out and everyone left the bog. My buddy got out of the tree and went in himself and 20 min later out he comes. Ran to me and I shot him.
This deer, as it turned out, had lost a ton of body weight due to a small poke in his windpipe from a fight probably. He was going to die soon. But he held his ground and refused to budge while people tramples his entire hiding spot. Unbelievable. A buck that wants to hide and has the balls to stay put will never be found.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2014 0:12:52 GMT -5
Maybe this thread would have been better served had it been titled, How do they do it? Lol There have been a lot of good mentions in this thread and everyone seems to have some of the same experiences or encounters or lack there of. I guess my biggest amazement or question really lies in how the heck do these deer have the ability and will power to lay so low for so long. It's truly amazing. We/I have a pretty darn good idea where some deer stay and live 99% of their daytime lives away and become "mature" and then eventually expire to the elements, coyotes or old age etc. But we hunt such small tracts we must leave these areas untouched and untracked or they will quickly be where we/I don't want them to be. I hunted the same buck for 4 straight seasons, knew where he bedded, knew his travel patterns by his rub lines, he was what i called pretty much totally nocturnal, he busted me once the third year right at dark reaching for my bow, silouhette'd me, then the fourth year i blew my best and only chance at him at first light, hit some limbs i couldnt see, spotted him one more time after that, it was early morning with not near enough shooting light, he vanished after that, never to be seen again. The will power and smarts these critters have are truly unbelievable. Thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts and stories, it's made for a pretty good thread.
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