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Post by airborneike on Sept 29, 2014 21:19:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the compliments,
Hammer, I agree that the low angle works much better but out of respect for Tom Posts patent, I have refrained from using it. Tom is a good man and even though some may have had the idea, he was first to patent it. Each must decide if they are willing to copy.
I have changed my design quite a bit since the post and it is still a "work in progress" always with the idea of not infringing on Tom's proprietary work.
I may try to post an update an show the current iteration.
Linebaugh, Thanks, the die isn't too difficult to make but it is time consuming... wouldn't want to make them for a living. :-)
All the best,
Mike
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Post by hemicuda on Sept 29, 2014 22:41:43 GMT -5
Very nice work especially on the numbers and 'mic' markings on die body. I made one different quite a while ago, before I seen your design. I used a 4 deg inside taper matched to barrel drop with 40tpi and Richard I did slit the drop 4 places in a dividing head. I don't think you will be able to full form size solid copper or mono flex bullets. I tried one without slitting the barrel drop and couldn't get it to work. .020 slits work easily. Pushing the bullets thru is another story. 3 ton arbor press is the answer plus 4' cheater pipe. Lol.
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Post by hammer on Sept 29, 2014 22:57:17 GMT -5
The advantage of this design is that you can make it interchangeable as a smooth form or full form and even interchange multiple barrel drops for different rifles.
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Post by Richard on Sept 30, 2014 18:57:31 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I am not a trained machinist I do very well with external threading and have no problem fitting and heads spacing my match barrels (which do win or place on occasion) but never had the real need to get into internal threading and my smooth sized bullets do fine for just plinking. If there was some serious competition for these guns I might be more inclined to full form. Out to 300 to 400 yards I believe I could kill any deer as dead with a smooth sized Barnes or Parker as well as with a full formed one? Heck with the Barnes and Parkers I could retire my Swinglock die:) Richard
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Post by linebaugh on Sept 30, 2014 19:24:20 GMT -5
Thanks to this post I built my own version of the FF die yesterday. Five hours later and I think I have a working unit. Mine was a much simpler version but I see absolutely no reason it will not work fine and last many years to come.
Richard posted on internal threading. I did my own this time and it's not the first time but I did manage to break my internal threading tool this time. I did not make a relief cut and when the tool bottomed out (my poor skills) it broke the tooth. So the FF die cost me $50.
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Post by airborneike on Sept 30, 2014 19:59:04 GMT -5
Linebaugh,
I have found that when internal threading to just set the compound directly opposite of you to 90* and feed straight in and use the cross feed to return to zero. Rigid set up and small cuts and use a dial indicator and thread slow. I don't try to pull the cutter out at the end, just release the half nuts and let it spin then move the cutter out of the cut. With the dial indicator or DRO you can stop to within .001. Works for me.
Glad you were successful
Best,
Mike
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Post by edge on Sept 30, 2014 20:10:50 GMT -5
IMO, on a manual lathe I would feed away from the headstock on internal threads! Make your undercut, set your stop all of the way in at the final depth in ( Z ), feed in for your cut depth ( X ) and engage so that the carriage moves toward the tailstock and you should never break a tool.
edge.
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Post by linebaugh on Sept 30, 2014 20:40:21 GMT -5
Both of those ideas would have worked fine. I do need to buy a couple more dial indicators and my machine has no DRO. I did notice how you applied the dial indicator on your lathe and I do have plans to incorporate that idea in the future.
I have no idea why I didn't run left hand threads as that would have been much easier and $50. Cheaper. I have been going to do that on a couple other builds but have not done it as of yet. Live and learn.
Again thanks for the how to with pix and also for the pointers.
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Post by edge on Oct 1, 2014 7:36:40 GMT -5
Curious as to your left hand thread comment, why would they be easier and cheaper?
edge.
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Post by timgunner on Feb 10, 2015 13:23:39 GMT -5
Thanks a bunch i've been toying with the idea of trying to make a full form die ot of a barrel drop and this is just the motivation i needed! I also really liked the way you put index marks on the die that looks sharp!
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Post by norseman1 on Feb 10, 2015 16:24:33 GMT -5
Nice tutorial.Thanks for the post!!!!norseman1
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Post by airborneike on Feb 12, 2015 0:05:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the compliments.
One thing to keep in mind when building and using a forming die is the need to keep the bullet as perfectly concentric around its own axis as possible. The same principles apply to full formed ml bullets as precision reloading. The leade cone that is cut in the barrel drop absolutely needs to be cut with the same care and accuracy as one would use when chambering a center fire barrel or yaw can be induced into the bullets and could degrade accuracy.
Those that build full form dies as a source of income probably don't like diy'ers building them but the diy'ers and tinkerers are what drives new ideas and innovation IMHO.
I encourage anyone who has the tools and means to experiment, to do so...there is always a better "moustrap" out there waiting to be discovered...part of what makes smokeless muzzle loaders so fascinating is the experimenting and learning new ways to make it work.
Best,
Mike
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Post by hankinsrfls on Feb 12, 2015 12:02:51 GMT -5
Those that build full form dies as a source of income probably don't like diy'ers building them but the diy'ers and tinkerers are what drives new ideas and innovation IMHO. I encourage anyone who has the tools and means to experiment, to do so...there is always a better "moustrap" out there waiting to be discovered...part of what makes smokeless muzzle loaders so fascinating is the experimenting and learning new ways to make it work. Best, Mike I build custom swaging dies and custom rifles, I started out 30 some odd years ago as a do it yourselfer, Just like a lot of you here. Although I do get some income from the rifle building business it is not a full time job, I don't think it will ever make enough to live on but it does generate a small amount of (play money) for me. My full time job is with the rail road and that is what I count on to pay the bills. Who knows, some wacko in politics could pass a law making it illegal to do what we do and then I'd be out of a job, so therefor I count on my real job for a living....
But, back to the do-it-yourselfers.... If we didn't have those do-it-yourselfers we would not have many things in this world. I urge anyone with the desire to build and learn new things to do just that. If you have the time and equipment then you should be doing it yourself. There are a lot of great minds that have great ideas, learning to turn those ideas into something real is priceless, and if first you don't succeed, try it again. Most inventers don't get it right the first time. They make a prototype, use it a few times and see where they can make improvements and then make another prototype, until they finally settle on what works the best.
As for the guys that want to do-it-yourself, I am glad we have you, making things better for all of us..
Jeff Hankins.
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Post by dhwolf on May 18, 2020 8:48:49 GMT -5
This post is for those who like to "tinker" so if you know your way around a lathe and are comfortable with external/internal threading and boring, you will probably enjoy making this die. So Here we go. Mike, The images are gone. Could you upload them again or let us know where we can access the images for your design?
I saw your message originally on PracticalMachinst.
A couple of us Colorado mz elk hunters would LOVE to try making your type full form bullet sizing die in 50 caliber, but need some help with getting started using your design ideas / images.
Suggestions? THANKS so much!
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Post by rambler on May 18, 2020 9:18:52 GMT -5
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Post by dhwolf on May 18, 2020 10:53:58 GMT -5
Rambler, thank you for uploading the new pics!!!
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Post by cuda on May 19, 2020 8:58:01 GMT -5
Thanks Rambler I was going to try this and by then the pictures were gone. I saved all of them this time THANKS AGAIN!
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Post by 12ptdroptine on May 20, 2020 10:10:35 GMT -5
Thank you Rambler. I have 2 complete builds on Savage Target actions. Complete with Mike's sizing die's. They both shoot with unbelievable accuracy. And the die's look more like jewelry than sizing die's. Mike is a true craftsman Thank You again and again Mike
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Post by rambler on May 20, 2020 21:01:49 GMT -5
Sorry for the photobucket logo. If you save each file to your desk top or another area of working storage and then blow up the pic you can make out the instructions it covers up, after a fashion.
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