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Post by airborneike on Jul 6, 2013 22:25:28 GMT -5
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Post by Dave W on Jul 6, 2013 23:56:34 GMT -5
Thanks for a very informative and extremely well done post!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 6:15:24 GMT -5
Yes, extremely well done! very good post... thanks for taking the time to do it..
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Post by bigmoose on Jul 7, 2013 6:29:57 GMT -5
I don't know what I'm looking at, but I admire the skill of folks like you and others on the board.
Best Wishes,
Marty
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Post by jims on Jul 7, 2013 7:43:44 GMT -5
Excellent work and photos.
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Post by cuda on Jul 7, 2013 9:46:13 GMT -5
Vary nice work! Should be added to the Tips And Hints. Great write up for the DIY guy that has a big lathe and likes to tinker. Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 9:52:19 GMT -5
Awesome post AirborneIke you made it look easy to build such a piece of artwork ,thanks for sharing your knowledge and techniques....and THANK YOU...Greenhorn
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Post by tatume on Jul 7, 2013 10:18:45 GMT -5
If one makes a device for his personal use, is patent infringement an issue? I thought a patent protected the holder from commercial competition.
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rock
Button Buck
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Post by rock on Jul 7, 2013 11:59:15 GMT -5
I appreciate you taking the time to show us how that is done. What did you use to engrave the numbers on the die. I'm looking for a way to engrave the barrels that I chamber?
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Post by airborneike on Jul 7, 2013 12:01:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words, The die is easy to make and you don't have to have a large lathe, just one that will thread.
Tatume, my understanding of patent law (very limited) is that legally one cannot make the patented item for any reason without the approval of the patent holder.
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Post by Richard on Jul 7, 2013 13:10:39 GMT -5
Very nicely done Mike! I am tempted, based on your excellent illustrations but never perfected my "internal" threading ability:) I am curious as to one aspect. What allows the diameter of the barrel drop to tightened or loosened? I understand how a collet works........There are fine splits that can be compressed by a tapered sleeve...........but I don't see any on your illustrations? I see the taper you cut...............Is it just the compression on the two tapers that put enough squeeze on the drop to change the dimension? I have sort of noticed the same thing on my smooth Swinglock die..........NO slits? I am curious as to how much "spring-back" there is? Thanks Richard
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Post by airborneike on Jul 7, 2013 14:44:13 GMT -5
Thanks Richard,
Internal threading can be agravating if you try to backfeed at 29.5...complex clearance angles and such. I set my compound at 90* and backfeed straight in, use the crossfeed to return to zero just like you would when external threading, just that everything is pulled back instead of pushed. Ridgid setup helps, I use Micro 100 solid carbide threading bars, also cuts have to be smaller with lots of springback cuts. Takes a little longer than external threading.
There are no cuts on the tapered cut drop. We are only sizing down in the 10 thousandths and the edge will move that much. Springback is accomplished when the next bullet is sized to a larger size. This die is caliber sensitive in that you can't size a .452 with a .458 die, it would ruin the end of the drop. The drop angle is not cut to a sharp edge on the end of the drop, I leave a .010 -.015 flat there, remember the crowning cut on the drop. I have had no problems with my die but can see where there might be some if you were tighten the top too much and really work it back and forth excessively. I usually make a smooth drop to go with the die and it is also caliber sensitive. The die really isn't hard to make but it does take quite a bit of time. I have seen your work and you should not have any problems...make a smooth form drop blank to experiment!
I have only seen a swinglock patent drawing and really don't know how it works. I know that $189.00 is cheap for the amount of machining that goes into them.
Rock,
I am not a fan of hammered stamps, I use an electronic etch on my rifle barrels and just hand engrave the numbers on the die bodies. The straight lines are cut using the lathe carriage.
Mike
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Post by jray57 on Jul 8, 2013 6:08:47 GMT -5
Very nice work and good post! I have always wanted to be able to do that kind of work (and afford the equipment).....But since I can't I sure am glad I know Tom!
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Post by Richard on Jul 8, 2013 11:30:14 GMT -5
Thanks for that information Mike. Had I not been getting such good results and low ES's with the smooth Swinglock die, I would be tempted to try it.............and still may:) Richard
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Post by edge on Jul 10, 2013 11:28:12 GMT -5
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Post by Richard on Jul 10, 2013 15:04:23 GMT -5
Good deal Edge..........Mike did a great job! Richard
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Post by floormat1957 on Jul 10, 2013 21:19:21 GMT -5
This information was great and way above my abilities. However after reading this I must say that Airborneike deserves more than one star underneath his name. The guys who seem to be the most knowledgeable have more than one star and aren't called spikes. Come on on and give this guy a bigger rack and more stars.
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Post by ronlaughlin on Jul 10, 2013 21:28:34 GMT -5
airborneike,
Truly sweet!
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Post by airborneike on Jul 11, 2013 0:32:21 GMT -5
Thanks for all the good words but I am not an expert with this smokeless muzzleloading stuff. Been a military shooter for many years and a long range gun builder and competitor also for many years but that certainly doesn't qualify as smokeless expertise. Just trying to learn as much as I can from those of you who are truly experts here. I have taken a lot of information and knowledge from many experts on this board and will try to give back what I can within my knowledge base. Being retired gives more free time but I have to agree with Moose that getting old ain't nearly what it's cracked up to be, in fact 'bout the only thing "golden" in these so called golden years is what I see when I go to the bathroom all the best to ya Mike
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Post by willbird on Oct 4, 2013 0:31:18 GMT -5
Nifty :-)..........
A shop where I used to work did tons of lathe and mill parts for tool and die, a guy there could easily make a half dozen of each part of the die (except the barrel drop part) in less than 1 hour I bet. They had Mazak lathes which use a conversational control they call it, the operator draws the part and the machine writes it's own program.
I'm going to draw this up on CAD tmw maybe (this weekend at the latest) and will post it up and you can see if I have it right :-).
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Post by willbird on Oct 4, 2013 1:28:41 GMT -5
Lets see if I understood the text and pictures properly :-).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2013 7:15:26 GMT -5
Amazing work and post. So jealous, wish I was a machinist.. Great stuff....
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Post by willbird on Oct 4, 2013 10:59:38 GMT -5
One little minor detail I thought of after I tried to go to sleep last night, a chamfer on the lead in end of the insert, would 45 degrees work ??
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Post by airborneike on Oct 5, 2013 16:59:05 GMT -5
Willbird, your drawing is pretty much spot on although the leade angle needs to be much less than what you showed, more like 2 degrees or so...makes starting the bullet much easier and allows for a more straight alignment of the bullet. I also have found that the internal threads should be at a finer pitch than the 26 tpi that I showed...believe you would do better with 32 or 40. The only other thing I see is on the bottom die where the bottom of the bullet drop bottoms out...that corner and the corner where the die screws into the press are just a bit too close and might create a weak spot.
The die has worked for me and really is not very hard to build...even with my manual machine tools.
All the best to you
Mike
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Post by dave d. on Oct 5, 2013 19:27:36 GMT -5
Great post and great work mike.I dont shoot sabotless but still really enjoyed your post. Thanks
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Post by willbird on Oct 6, 2013 11:29:42 GMT -5
Willbird, your drawing is pretty much spot on although the leade angle needs to be much less than what you showed, more like 2 degrees or so...makes starting the bullet much easier and allows for a more straight alignment of the bullet. I also have found that the internal threads should be at a finer pitch than the 26 tpi that I showed...believe you would do better with 32 or 40. The only other thing I see is on the bottom die where the bottom of the bullet drop bottoms out...that corner and the corner where the die screws into the press are just a bit too close and might create a weak spot. The die has worked for me and really is not very hard to build...even with my manual machine tools. All the best to you Mike I think I drew it according to the text, yep went back and looked at the text, 2.25 long, shank turned back .875dia 1.25long, and the bore for the insert goes in .975...so that does leave the bottom of the insert pocket close to the thread shoulder (but I drew it as instructed hehe). Maybe make the oal 2.5 inches not 2.25 ?? Makes sense the lead in would be about the same as the leade in a rifle chamber :-). I had in mind to use 32 TPI so one turn would advance the cap 1/32 of an inch. I have a new Lee Classic Cast press coming next week so will probably make the die 1.25"-12 to screw right in there. I was going to buy an arbor press but to walk in and buy a 1 ton (other than Harbor fright) was $100, and the press was just a little more than that, and I needed a beefier press anyway, have a couple RCBS JR press's right now.
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Post by willbird on Oct 6, 2013 11:51:39 GMT -5
Yup just checked my metals inventory and I have some 1-3/4 12L14 bar ends I got off ebay, will use one of those to make the die, should be a beefy thing at 1-3/4 dia with a 1-1/4-12 shank :-).
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Post by willbird on Oct 8, 2013 10:15:52 GMT -5
OK drew the insert up with a 3 degree per side lead angle. Mike has said he went to a .625 dia for a sort of standard size, which makes sense :-). The drop from a 30" number 6 shilen measures .672 at the muzzle, and .772 where you cut it to 26" so plenty of material there to hit .625. Bill
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Post by hammer on Sept 28, 2014 21:33:05 GMT -5
Airborneike, Thank you for taking the time to put this tutorial together. It was very easy for me to follow and make a smooth form sizing die that works great. As you suggested I changed the threads to 32 tpi and also changed the insert taper to 15 degrees. The combination of the modifications allows for very fine adjustment when sizing. Thanks again I really appreciate you for putting this thread together.
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Post by linebaugh on Sept 29, 2014 11:14:17 GMT -5
Nice work and thanks for your time in posting this. I may actually try to create my own, less purdy version thanks to your post.
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