|
Post by vpimine on Nov 7, 2013 9:03:11 GMT -5
I have been using the Accutip's in Illinois for the last several years and we have had great success with them. The accuracy is great and had good luck with deer recovery.
|
|
|
Post by artjr338wm on May 25, 2014 19:46:35 GMT -5
I will tell you all what shooting 100's upon 100's of all types of different sabot slugs over the last 25+ years has taught me.
A#-Consist box to box to box accuracy of sabot ammo within shells of the same lot # is more unlikely than likely, and constant flier free accuracy within sabot ammo of different lot#'s simply doesn't exist, at lea st not in my experience having shot close to a 1000 rounds of sabot ammo.
The best groups I ever shot with a slug rifle were using Remington Core-Lockt ammo out of my A-Bolt. I bought 15 rounds all of the same lot#. At 100yrds I shot my only MOA and even two sub-MOA groups. I instantly ASAP went back to Cabelas and bought all remaining RCL's in that lot # they had. Although I later shot groups that averaged at or under 2", I never again was able to repeat the MOA accuracy I did first time out. Once all this lot# was gone I bought just enough more to test them out. Much to my utter disappointment I could not buy a group under 3.5-4", thankfully I had only invested in 2 boxes. Not willing to admit defeat easily, I tried 2 more boxes of a different lot #, there was a decent improvement accuracy wise, but nothing close to my MOA groups. I gave them a try several more times, but never again did I attain my previous MOA groups.
Thankfully during that time I stumbled across and tried Federal Barnes Tipped Expanders, and finally found a consistent performing sabot. Day in and out these now sadly discontinued slug gave me 1.5" 100yrd 3-shot groups. The wild thing about the Federal's is I never got a group larger or smaller than 1,5", and you could lay targets one atop another and the holes came close to lining up, and I'm talking about 6 or 8 targets.
So when I heard Federal was stopping production of my beloved Federal /Barnes slugs in favour of their own version, I quickly gave them a try. Their performance was in a word, poor. Now in mild state of panic, I began trying to buy all the Federal/ Barnes I could find.
So thankfully I still have two good performing slugs, my Federal/ Barnes and Winchester Partition Golds.
I think it just slight of disgraceful that for what ever reason the ammunition manufacturers simply can't make a sabot that will give us consistent accuracy, especially at around $3 a round no less.
|
|
|
Post by wilmsmeyer on May 26, 2014 5:54:36 GMT -5
Although I haven't shot thousands of slugs like Art, I was once VERY interested in finding the magic in them.
I had 2 guns: NEMF super heavy barrel break open and a Mossburg 9200 Auto loaders.
I've bought 50 round lots many times after finding a good load. The NEMF loved the original lightfield slugs and the Mossbberg hated them. Although more forgiving with most slugs the NEMF couldn't do great things with the Barnes Expanders (the huge hollowpoint version) The Mossberg was so phenominal with them that I shot up over 100 just on paper because I loved printing those amazing groups...probably a true 1 1/2" gun all day with many sub 1" groups and very few making it 2". My most favorite group was at 160 yds. All my camp buds were doing the same thing looking for a good slug. They were watching me shoot these Barnes into little clusters and wondered how they would do if I stretch the distance. 160 is all we have at the camp. I was sighted in for 100 yds dead on and took 3 shots at 160. Even though the holes are 50 cal, I could not tell for sure where they struck. I thought there was some mud real low on the target. When we walked up there I was dumbfounded. All 3 shots were almost touching in about a 1" group....11-12 inches low...perfect up and down.
I gave up keeping a slug gun ready since we went rifle 3 years ago. Even the Savage sits around except for our one week ML season which is really 2 days since I only hunt the weekend.
My take on slug accuracy is all speculative but I assume it is VERY hard to produce these rounds with the precision of a centerfire round or a "handloaded" bullet/sabot in an ML.
1) A shotgun shell has a lot of slop. Plastic hulls, soft wads and varying crimp 2) A sabot that is super thick related to the bullet...70 cal barrel, 50 cal bullet. petals are basically .10 thick! That's 20% the thickness of the bullet. If your muzzle loader sabot in a .50 cal had petals 20% as thick as the bullet, you'd be shooting a 40 cal bullet in a .50 cal gun. We know how that works, or doesn't 3) Ever cut shotgun slug ammo open and view the parts...and the sabot? The slits vary in depth and width. IMO this is important....and leads to my next theory. 4) You can't index a shotgun sabot to the rifling. This may be one of the biggest reasons for inconsistency. Varying slit widths, varying rifling land heights and widths and no way to maximize the contact from rifling to sabot.
I've always thought these things were amazing and revolutionary to slug hunting. A huge improvement. Us perfectionists here on this board are always trying to find the holy grail with any of our guns. Guys want to benchrest there guns, that kick like a .458 Win MAg and get results like the guy next to them with a heavy barrel .222 Rem and a taylored handload. Centerfire? Easy. ML? Harder but doable. Slug gun? It's a dart board. They will either shoot adequate or poorly and the roand is the weak link...which we can't control.
It's really amazing they can shoot as good as they do.
The last few years of slug hunting had me shooting Winchester fosters believe it or not. I never shoot at deer with a slug gun further than 50-75 yds. If longer shots were possible I would simply grab the Savage ML that day. The Winchesters would always group 4-5" at 100 yds and I deemed them acceptable for my application. And very economical.
|
|
|
Post by mrbuck on May 29, 2014 18:10:17 GMT -5
I think a 2" group from a slug gun is about the best you may hope for in this day and age . I know I have shot hundreds since the early '70's , and not that there has not been a world of improvement , I think we are victims of gun and ammo makers " hype ". Once in a while somebody gets a gun that is a tack driver , they find an ammo the gun likes , and they know how to shoot it with the right conditions . I thought I was the only guy that shoots a good group and runs back to the store to buy more of the same lot ! My second Savage 220 likes the new Federal Trophy Coppers ... I think . I shot a 1" group at 100 yards over two days . Dead on at 100 yards with a chronographed velocity of ( only ) 1650 fps . Packed up and drove to buy the last three boxes of that lot . For $ 3.00 a pop ammo companies should produce a better shell .
|
|
|
Post by hornet22savage on May 31, 2014 7:13:00 GMT -5
I will agree with you on that statement. My Ithaca will print 1 inch groups with four different slugs. Winchester Dual Bonds, Winchester Platinum Tips, Remington Core Lokts and Remington Accu Tips. The Dual bonds are my go to slug right now.
|
|
|
Post by mrbuck on Jun 2, 2014 8:47:20 GMT -5
Seems that Ithaca guns shoot very well . Ohioguy has posted groups shot with his Ithaca that are smoking hot ! Most quick shooting centerfire deer guns can't beat some of these Ithaca slug guns . You are lucky to own such a tackdrive !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 14:42:01 GMT -5
Seems that Ithaca guns shoot very well . Ohioguy has posted groups shot with his Ithaca that are smoking hot ! Most quick shooting centerfire deer guns can't beat some of these Ithaca slug guns . You are lucky to own such a tackdrive ! There have been a lot of valid points made in this thread. Too many to revisit them all, just a very good and informative thread! There are many good slug guns out there and some pretty decent ammo for them nowadays, it's just like anything else, trial and error to find the best combo for what you have, unfortunately the slug gun world is a very costly testing ground. One thing for sure, Ithaca has slug guns figured out, they seem to be shooters right out of the box with no modifications required. Either way ya look at it, slug guns in general and their ammo have came a long ways!
|
|
|
Post by hornet22savage on Jun 4, 2014 7:18:57 GMT -5
When I purchased my Ithaca I bought it used and it came with a 20" smoothbore slug barrel on it. It would shoot Remington Sluggers into one hole at 50 yds. I purchased a rifled barrel from Ithaca and switched to get more distance. I kick myself because I sold that smoothbore barrel, however I know it went to a good home for a good cause too. I have tried them all at one time or another. The Remington Buck hammers and Copper Solids shot good, as did the core-lokts and accu-tips. The Winchester Platinum Tips and Dual Bonds are my go to slugs however the Platinum Tips are no longer. I have shot the Partition Golds with ok groups, as with the new Federal Trophy Coppers. However the Hornady SST new or old, Federal Barnes Expanders or Winchester XP3 are not worth a hoot in my gun.
|
|