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Post by mrbuck on Nov 29, 2012 12:32:15 GMT -5
Great morning to check my slug guns zero. Calm, overcast, 27 degrees at 900am. Real world deer season conditions. The old Savage bolt action with a custom Chris Young heavy barrel topped with a newer Leupold 3 x 9 put my ''go to ''load of of Federal 2 3/4''Barnes Tipped Expander dead on with a slightly under a 2'' group at 100yds.
I then tried the new Federal ''Trophy Copper'' 2 3/4'' 300gr. replacement to the discontinued Barnes Tipped Slug. The point of impact was understandably different . However the group was over 4'' at 100yds. More testing is going to be done at a later date.
Has anyone also tried these ''new'' Federal slugs ?
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Post by tar12 on Nov 29, 2012 19:13:56 GMT -5
I would like to know more about this Chris Young fellar and the barrels he is offering! ;D
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Post by Al on Nov 29, 2012 19:49:22 GMT -5
Is Chris still making barrels?
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Post by lunchbox on Nov 29, 2012 19:59:13 GMT -5
I tried the new Trophys in my 220 and they shot two touching and one about an inch away from the other 2 at 100yds. they were all 3 shot in about 3 min and in about 60 degree weather.
The boy shot his first doe with them at about 75yds and was drt. we recovered the bullet. Went thru the right shoulder and was under the hide on the far side rib cage. perfect mushroom
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Post by mrbuck on Nov 30, 2012 18:09:04 GMT -5
Chris Young was cutting rifling in factory smoothbore barrels in the late 80's when I first heard of him. He worked out of a small shop a block or two out of Trenton,NJ. I think the shop was really in Hamilton,NJ. He cut a Remington 1100 barrel for me that shot the old BRI slugs very well for the standards of that era. Had a 1-4 Leupold mounted on that gun.
Chris and his wife also loaded Hornady 250gr. and 300gr. XTP's in 2 3/4'' loaded shells that he sold in local central Jersey sport shops. Harry's was one of them and maybe the sold some by mail (?). Cheyenne Outfitters in Robbinsville, NJ still stocks them. They were called ''Collet Cup'' slugs. If I recall correctly they had several '' flavors'' in 12ga. and at least one in 20ga.
At least ten years ago(time flies) I realized I could not afford a Tar Hunt and Browning Abolts were not on many used gun racks however I found a used Savage 210 camo stocked turkey gun with a 24'' barrel and a screw in full choke. The price was right so away we go !!
I took the gun down to Chris with the idea that perhaps the choke could be cut off and the barrel rifled. He measured the bore diameter and said it was larger than he would prefer for good accuracy. So might as well have a complete new barrel cut and installed. Might as well get the trigger adjusted to2 1/2lbs.while the barrel is being cut.
I first put a older Leupold 3-9 on the gun in Leupold mounts. That scope has been up graded with a newer model Leupold 3-9. How does it shoot ? It would always shoot the old style Federal Barnes Expanders H.P. or Tipped under 2''. Some times it will put three shots into 1 1/2' at 100yds.' Winchester Partitions and Platinum H.P.over 3'' at 100yds. The Partitions are always plagued with fliers. Maybe it's me as the gun does kick. Lightfields shoot very well. I've only shot one test group but it was under 1 1/2'' at 100yds. however I dont believe the slug is up to the potential of the gun / scope.
Dave Henderson out of Southern New York State ( Henderson Outdoors on the 'Net ) has a great book on slug shooting . He talks about Chris Youngs cutting edge slug work and has a picture of Chris and his wife, Emma, with some nice bucks.
Last fall I received word that Chris was on longer doing any gunsmithing due to health reasons however the Collet Cup loaded shells are still available.
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Post by Indianahunter on Dec 2, 2012 15:02:45 GMT -5
Tar, looking for another barrel?
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Post by tar12 on Dec 8, 2012 7:48:59 GMT -5
Tar, looking for another barrel? If I could find a heavy walled barrel and have it pinned to a dedicated 870 20 ga..with out the Tar-Hunt price then yes I am looking! ;D |
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Post by mrbuck on Dec 8, 2012 15:36:22 GMT -5
Tar...
A pal had a Hastings barrel pinned to an 870 in 12ga. and it really shoots Rem. Copper Solids.
2'' and under at 100yds. when I shot it to get it on paper for him. I only tried that slug as that is what he had his mind made up on using.
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Post by tar12 on Dec 8, 2012 18:32:22 GMT -5
I have a couple spots that are close quarter sets. A sweet light handling dedicated 20 ga would be perfect in these situations. I have a 870 Express 20 ga. Now I need to find someone to do it.Any ideas?
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Post by dave d. on Dec 11, 2012 7:47:47 GMT -5
:)yes its ashame thst my buddy chris had a stroke about 8 to 10 years ago and no longer does barrels or gunsmithing. I have three of his barrels. One on a tarhunt one on a savage and one on a smith&wesson 1000 (chris' s personal gun I bought of him). Im going down to see him this weekend its been to long. Mr I've read others having the same issue you are having with the new offering. My sav shot that barnes expander very well also but I happened to try some 2 3/4" remington accutips one day out at 200yrds. I only had 4 left from another gun so I said what the heck lets see how they do. Well I was pleasantly surprised to see a 2 1/4" group all vertical. They were stacked right on top of each other. Iran down to new harrys and bought a half a dozen boxes . Goodluck
Ps rich there used to be a aftermarket barrel maker called badger that made slug barrels for the 870 that shot good but they were bought by wilson so I dont know if the can be found anymore.
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Post by hornet22savage on Dec 11, 2012 9:09:57 GMT -5
I tried the trophy coppers out of my DS-I 12 ga and had 2 inch groups at 100 yds. Those were the 3" and I never found the 2 3/4 locally to try. The TC shot better than the Barnes EXP did out of my gun. I settled on the Dual Bonds they touch at 100 yds. from my gun.
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Post by mrbuck on Dec 11, 2012 9:52:06 GMT -5
dave d ,
Interesting that you have a Chris Young barrel on a Tar Hunt. Was this the gun you used to slay that fine buck ? I really treasure that Savage with the Young barrel. The first opening day I used it ( down by Locktown, Hunterdon Cty. ) I killed two fox at about 60yds.,a one horned 4 pointer ( at one time he was an 8 )at about 90yds., and a doe also at about 90yds. with the hollow point Federal Barnes. One shot each.
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Post by mike3132 on Dec 11, 2012 10:57:53 GMT -5
Mr Buck,
Hasting barrels posted a warning about shooting the Rem copper solids in them. Seems the solids are too tight and rainbow the barrel. I actually saw a barrel that happened too. The barrel had a arch to it and the only ammo shot in the barrel was Rem Copper Solids. Seems the 20 ga Hastings barrel were OK, it was only the 12 ga. Now that being said I also had a friend with a 870 Rem and Hastings barrel that shot Copper Solids and his barrel never rainbowed. So I imagine Hastings had a run of tight barrels and if you got one then Copper Solids were a no-no and if you didnt then they were OK. Mike
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Post by mrbuck on Dec 11, 2012 13:30:35 GMT -5
mike3132,
I may be wrong but I thought that was for the 1st style of Copper Solids that were discontinued about 10 or more years ago. I'll mention this to my friend as I only shoot Rem. Copper Solids out of an 1100 with a rifled barrel.
Thanks for the thought.
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Post by dave d. on Dec 12, 2012 10:42:08 GMT -5
:)mr actaully that tarhunt is going to my son when he is old enough. I had it refinished (np3) and never shot it again. I picked up a np3 12g tarhunt and that was the one that I shot that buck with using hornady slugs. I have to go sight in my sav ccs this weekend with the accutips At cjrp club along with a few rifles. As I said my gun loves the hollow point barnes federal load as well. Take care and goodluck hunting the rest of the season
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Post by mrbuck on Dec 12, 2012 11:46:53 GMT -5
dave d.,
Good luck at the range. If you ever get ''up North of Rt. 78'' try to get in touch.
mrbuck
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Post by dave d. on Dec 12, 2012 14:27:23 GMT -5
:)sure thing.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Dec 15, 2012 21:13:19 GMT -5
Tar, looking for another barrel? If I could find a heavy walled barrel and have it pinned to a dedicated 870 20 ga..with out the Tar-Hunt price then yes I am looking! ;D Try Da-Mar Gunsmithing |
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Post by hornet22savage on Mar 16, 2013 19:33:34 GMT -5
I picked up two boxes of the 2 3/4 today I hope to get out soon to shoot them. I will post the results. The 3 inch didn't shoot too bad for me about average 2" at 100 yds.
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Post by mrbuck on Mar 17, 2013 10:58:34 GMT -5
hornet22savage ,
Pick a nice calm day to shoot and please post your results . Good luck.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2013 16:07:19 GMT -5
I seen Cabela's had the new Fed's in stock the other day, I didn't have the nerve to buy any yet since I like the Accutips so well, at least until some others who already have the Fed's try them and post some results.
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Post by mrbuck on Mar 23, 2013 13:22:19 GMT -5
What luck !! Went to a Spring Sale at a local sportshop and low and behold there was at least a case of the discontinued Federal 12ga. Magnum 3/4oz. Barnes Expander H. P. Slugs sitting on the shelf !! After I found that there were no Tipped slugs on the shelf (I'll take ANY B.C. help with a slug),I grabbed eight boxes. 12.99 a box then 10% off with the Spring Sale.
This slug shot very well (always under 1 3/4'' down to 1 1/4'' at 100yds.in my H.B. Bolt Action Savage. Should be good for a couple of more deer or bear.
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Post by hornet22savage on Aug 2, 2013 18:24:09 GMT -5
I went out and tried the 2 3/4 Federal Trophy Copper sabot slugs from my M37 Deerslayer. Not the best results for me took fivwe shots to get three to group into a 1.5" group at 100 yds. I have noticed some repeatable inconsistancies in my set up. First off the gun is sighted for the Winchester DualBond which is heavier and the POI shift of the Feds show that. They shot on average 6" high at 100 yds. compared to the DualBond which was zeroed at 100. A couple of the shots were 9" high. The gun had 10 rounds through it on a pervious shoot. I shot five of the Trophy Coppers and the shots fell like this. First and third shots were 9" high and shots two, four and five were 6" high and grouped into a 1.5" group. I was happy with the group but overall it would measure close to three inches overall. Last year I shotthe DualBonds and had sub one inch groups at 100 yds. Then I noticed that some shots would hit on the bull and some would walk to the left. Apon closer inspection I found some bullets to be loose in the shell and those would walk. Always seems to be a flyer in these sabots, I want to try recrimping the factory loads to a set number and see if the accuracy increases. Further testing needs to be done with the new Feds, on a side note we got approved for rifle this year so the slug gun will sit for now. Picture of Traget will follow.  |
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Post by mrbuck on Aug 5, 2013 16:32:26 GMT -5
Great information , thank you . A very knowledgeable shotgunner from here in North ' Jersey ( with a lot of time on his hands ) checked the tightness of the slugs in the sabots and the tightnessof the sabot in the shell case also . He never mentioned testing to see if there was an accuracy difference .
I have checked to see if the sabots were tight in several brands of slugs and segragated the loose slugs for fouling the barrel and sighting in the gun . The patch of Federal 3/4oz. Hollow Points that I picked up last March were checked and all of the sabots and slugs were tight . However , I noticed that both the old Barnes Tipped and the new Trophy Copper shell case length are much longer than the shell case for the non-tipped hollow point .
Hunted in Chenango County since the mid 70'snd since the year NY ok'ed rifles in that county our slug guns have not even made the trip to camp .
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Post by hornet22savage on Aug 6, 2013 7:31:03 GMT -5
I started checking all of my slugs since I found this out. I used to frequent shotgunworld.com until the members got out of hand and the mods were not that good. A member over there tipped me off to the Honrady SST's rattling. I went to bass pro and checked about five boxes and sure enough. Some will move by just tipping the slug nose down and other need a little snap. These can be grouped into three different categories, and POI is effected. I have noticed this with the Rem Accutips also but not as severe. For the money we pay for the things I would hope for better quality control.
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Post by mrbuck on Aug 6, 2013 13:42:50 GMT -5
Hornady slugs have never shot well for me or anyone I know that have tried them . It is nice to know other shooters are trying to find the answers to slug inaccuracy . If you can get Winchester DualBonds to shoot under 1 1/2 inches , I'd stop right there .
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Post by hornet22savage on Aug 12, 2013 20:33:24 GMT -5
It's always fun to experiment with new slugs. The Dual Bonds have been the best since they discontinued the Platinum Tips. I tried the Accutips for one year and while the accuracy was good I found the performance of the slug mediocre at best. I used to shoot the Core-Lokts until the price went too high those performed really well but I found that after a year the accuracy went a stray unless I bought fresh rounds. I tried the Partition Golds and the XP3's. The Partitions shot ok but the XP3's walked all over as did both versions of the Barnes. I basically have tried them all and like the Dual Bonds best for accuracy and if they perform on game anything like the ill fated polonium tips then its all good for me.
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Post by mrbuck on Aug 13, 2013 11:42:11 GMT -5
Enjoy experimenting but gets a bit expensive . Interesting that you thought accuracy went a stray with the Core-Lokts unless they were fresh rounds . Have you noticed this with other slugs ? When I find a good shooter I try to stock up with the same lot number .
Experienced hunters down here in the " Garden State " have had mixed performence with the Accu-Tips also . Folks seem to think they may not always expand .
Getting cooler in the mornings . Maybe time to shoot some slug groups . Never hurts .
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Post by hornet22savage on Aug 14, 2013 7:04:33 GMT -5
My personal preference was to always buy fresh slugs to hunt with however that said, the Core Lokts are the only ones to give me a fit. I don't know why but the accuracy go astray after one year, form talking with other hunters I'm not the only one. I only hunted with the Accutips for one year but took two deer with them. One was quartering away from me at 70 yds. going down hill, my shot went in high at about the spine back of the rib cage and went though the liver nicked the heart and destroyed the left lung. Great performance perfect mushroom and I found the slug under the hide it managed to penetrate the other side of the ribs. Deer was drt it was awesome to watch. The second deer was a doe at 30 yds. first shot went clean through both sides of the ribs and lungs but no expansion second shot was at close to 70 yds and took out the heart but again almost no expansion. The Accutips are supposed to be brass jacketed I believe them to be too tough for the size of the deer here in NY unless you take a shoulder shot and force it to expand.
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Post by marku on Nov 1, 2013 23:45:07 GMT -5
I really don't like the Accutips at all. Shot 4 deer, only 2 where recovered with not one exit on either.
Im shooting the 3" Trophys in my 220f and they really shoot good in it.
My plans are to have it rebarreled later this winter with a 1-26" twist .980 at 22" 6 groove barrel, that includes having the action trued as well. Hopefully they will continue to shoot well.
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