Model 1911 thoughts

[jims]

I have a chance to purchase a Colt 1911 (upper slide) with an Essex (lower made in Island Pond, VT). It has Trijiion night sites that unfortunately are old enough they do not work at night. The barrel has been engine turned, it has an aftermarket trigger with about a 5 pound pull. The grips are some type of soft, neoprene type rubber material. The upper slide is Colt and silver in color, the lower black.
A local gunsmith put the same together and he does good work. A law enforcement officer offered it to me. He has under 1000 rounds thru it since the gunsmith did his work. The slide does not release back as easily as it should. He wants $400 for the same. Am I in the ball park or not? I have a series of Glocks, S&W, Beretta and a High Standard auto and others but have never owned a 1911.
This is a current duty gun, he wants to go to something else. I have bought other duty guns before and generally have been happy. I am awaiting responses. I am thanking you in advance for your inputs.

[161]

I didn't answer right away because I thought someone more versed in 1911s than I would. The only 1911 style gun I ever had that I liked was a Para Ordnance P16 40S&W. I would say that if this gun works and you can shoot it well, $400.00 isn't a lot of money anymore. I would buy another Glock, XD or something easier to take apart.

[rossman40]

Essex frames are aftermarket so it is a mutt of a 1911. The top slide being a Colt doesn't mean much, it depends on what series, later ones had the firing pin disconnect/block which added to the trigger pull. What you want to look at first is how tight is the slide to the frame. Another thing is barrel to slide lock up which is probly pretty tight as you mentioned the slide does not release easily. 1911s lock on lugs on the top of the barrel into recesses in the slide. Getting that right is the mark of a good 1911 smith. If the slide is slow going forward the smith may had to pinch the slide to get it tight on the frame, look for heavy wear marks on the frame rails. The aftermarket trigger doesn't mean much ether, it is the hammer, sear and springs that does all the work. A 5lb pull would be about what I would want on a duty pistol, for range work a crisp 3lb or less. Engine turning the barrel is for looks, look for a name on the barrel, no name it could be a GI surplus barrel. The grips could be Houges overmolded or maybe even Pacmeyers. They were selling NIB Armscor and Rock Island (same company makes them in the Phillipines) 1911s for just over $300 a few years back that were actually a decent Mil-spec 1911, look for a SARCO ad in the Shtogun News.

[161]

rossmann.
What does it mean to engine tune a barrel? I have never heard of it.
Warren

[jims]

That is engine turning. They are a series of overlapping swirls put on a piece of metal. Mostly for looks, some say it holds lubrication better but that may be debatable.

[rossman40]

Engine turning or jeweling is a way to polish surfaces with a pattern. The pattern helps not showing wear marks and supposedly the minute swirls helps to retain lubrication, a popular touch on rifle bolts.



Here is a Kimber with barrel, hammer and trigger done up,



Looks good but pretty much cosmetic only, The major contacts for the barrel are the lugs and the front bushing.

[161]

So is it about the same thing as jeweling a bolt on a rifle?

[rossman40]

Sure is.

You use to see a lot of "mutts" out there. Smiths would build up parts from customers upgrading barrels, firing pins, extractors and all the other knick-knacks and could pick up cheap surplus slides and frames and be able to put a complete gun together fairly cheap. If you built one up with say a Caspian or STI frame and slide and top quality "hotrod" parts the bill could come out to over $1200 easy. A guy I used to shoot with regularly just built a "race gun" 1911 and just his parts bill he said was like $2100.

A old friend that used to own a liquor store once told me that if you pull out a gun on somebody it is better if it is easily identifiable. He had a 1911, a semi auto Thompson and later a AR-15. When he pulled out one of those there was no doubt in anyone's mind on exactly what it was.

[jims]

My resistance for another gun I will probably not shoot much deserted me. I bought the same for $370 considering I got a box of 50 cartridges, a case and an extra magazine.
The night sites also work but dimly.
The purchase was not so bad but already I had to buy a set of wood and stag grips. I just cannot leave well enought alone.
I reported incorrectly on it initially. It is a Colt 1911 but is marked 1991Al, Series 80. I think they were made on or about 1991. I am having the trigger lightened since it will just be a paper gun and took the recoil rubber buffer out.
Thanks for the replies and helpful information provided.

[rossman40]

It should be marked "1911A1 MKIV Series 80" which was produced after 1983. This model has the firing pin block which may be a problem if you want a super light trigger. It doesn't make the gun safer when handling except if you drop it and it lands on the hammer the gun might not go off. Most of the clones have this system. Colt did bring back the series 70 without the firing pin block mainly for competition shooters. The only drawback with the series 80 was on factory guns in the 1980's the mainspring housing was plastic. In the 90's they sold a "enhanced" version that had a lot of goodies that people would normaly have installed like ambidextrous safety, checkered mainspring housing and fancy trigger.

The difference between the 1911 and the 1911A1 (which came out in 1923) is the longer trigger and flat mainspring housing on the 1911, crescent cuts behind the trigger and longer spur on the 1911A1. If you really want a WWI style 1911 in your collection Colt brought them back too.