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Post by deadeye on Mar 7, 2011 15:44:49 GMT -5
mark,i got the answer- 20n29v is still last! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by jims on Mar 7, 2011 16:22:29 GMT -5
Not disagreeing with the gurus here but I always thought 4759 and VV110 were nearly duplicates of each other /interchangeable versus vv120. Very informative postings. Keep providing the same. Thanks.
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Post by rangeball on Mar 7, 2011 16:35:18 GMT -5
Only problem I see is the difficulty in finding 120 on the shelves. I wonder if there is a more readily available sub for it that would work as well? I know I am probably going to regret posting this as I have not tested to verify. But in our applications I think reducing 5744 a bit would be very similar to N120. It has been proven that about any duplex using 5744 as a booster you can change to N110 and get 150-200fps more velocity. 50gr of 4759 makes the same velocity as 60gr of N120. I would think you can reduce booster amounts a bit work up to see how it shoots. This is one of the big reasons I wanted to go down this path with N120. I see N120 and 4759 producing nearly exact same traces as single and on MANY burn rate charts developed by experinced shooters 4759 and N120 are side by side. As a matter of fact 5744 is listed as SLOWER than N120 on most shooters charts. See here at what you cipher out of all this. The burn rate chart I put the most stock when looking for powder switch outs: www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.aspBased on that chart I think you're thinking is right on. 4759 may be the best direct replacement that is also readily available. Which would be great if testing bears out the thinking, as that curve is the prettiest I've seen yet, I think, almost close to perfect
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Post by Savage Shooter on Mar 7, 2011 16:51:38 GMT -5
Not disagreeing with the gurus here but I always thought 4759 and VV110 were nearly duplicates of each other /interchangeable versus vv120. Very informative postings. Keep providing the same. Thanks. In the .50's they seem to be very close but all burn rates can easily change 5-10 spots on the chart based on application. The only way to prove that one way or another is to shoot them side by side at equal amounts with the ALL else equal. IMO 4759 IS closer to N110 than 5744. Rule of thumb is the one that makes the most speed has the highest relative quickness on the chart "for your application". I have not shot them as a single at incremental equal volume changes to see exactly where they fit on the chart for "our applications". Bullet bearing surface, bullet weight, bullet fit and 100 other variables make it impossible to make a blanket statement that the powders that are close on the "charts" are close in application. Only shooting them at your application can tell you that. IMO 5744 would "probably" be closer to burn rate than N120. But only testing side by side will bear that out.
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Post by Dave W on Mar 7, 2011 16:54:55 GMT -5
Not disagreeing with the gurus here but I always thought 4759 and VV110 were nearly duplicates of each other /interchangeable versus vv120. Very informative postings. Keep providing the same. Thanks. At one time, "pre-plastic jug",maybe, but with the plastic jug lots, velocities are considerably lower when H 322 is the primary or when shot as singles in my experiences. I was going to say 4759 might be a better choice also than N 110 to smooth the curve out but when I duplexed H 4198 in the .50, the discrepancy in velocity closed up in a grain for grain booster comparison. Still might be worth an attempt just to see.
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Post by shooter on Mar 7, 2011 17:09:52 GMT -5
excellent work & not losing patience,working up slowly,true "professionals" to all- btw/shooter-great team & shooting! Thanks Dead eye I am just doing what i was told to do.I am having some fun trying new loads. ;D ; I am a little bumb out i leaving for Tampa Florida on wends day.I see this beautifull trace and i want to go shoot some more.
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Post by TGinPA on Mar 22, 2011 11:35:13 GMT -5
Pressure Trace:PN45 N120/H4198 10/55gr 200SST At Shooter and SS requests I tested the above load: Testing equipment as in previous traces posted above. Trigger Sensitivity = 2, Strain Gage Voltage =4.9 Gage Factor =2.1 PSI Correction Factor: 0 Barrel Temp = 65 degrees F. measured at the sensor (IR). Altitude: 450 ft Chronograph: Barrel Type: PacNor .45 Cal Muzzleloader Barrel OD = 1.06 in Barrel ID = .452 Breech Plug:Savage Std. (screw-in ventliner) ventliner orifice .031in. Sensor dist fm BP=1.1 in. Bullet Diam.= .458 in. Bullet Type = Hornady 40cal 200SST. Bullet weight = 200gr. ,unknurled. Sabot: Harvester Smooth Blue Powder: All Traces: N120/H4198 10/55gr. Primer :Fed 209 Shot fm dirty barrel. This load seemed safe in my barrel under the test conditions but may not be so in other conditions. TG
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Post by Savage Shooter on Mar 22, 2011 13:52:50 GMT -5
Good looking trace, both speed and pressure about what I expected. Looks like another grain on the front or back either would improve the dip off at the end a bit with minor pressure increase and pick up about 45fps...... If it will shoot with accuracy this load will shoot the 195bx to near 2,950fps with right at 35kpsi. Looks like off to the range as soon as possible to see how it shoots........... For comparative evaluation the 15/55 N110/H322 = 588psi/grain with peak pressure traced @ 41kpsi and about 2970fps. N120 as single @ 60 gr = 572psi/grain with peak pressure "estimated" at 34K and about 2770fps N120 as single @ 65gr = 572psi/grain with peak pressure traced @ 37.2K and about 2900fps. H4198 as single @ 62gr = 523psi/grain with peak pressure traced @ 32.5K and about 2700fps when warm. 10/50 N120/H4198 = 541psi/grain with peak pressure traced @ 32.5K and about 2730fps. 13/53 N120/H4198 = 530psi/grain with peak pressure traced @ 35k and speed about 2890fps. This load shot 2.8" 300yd group. 10/55 N120/H4198 = 535psi/grain with peak pressure traced @ 34.7K and speed at 2912fps. 10/56 N120/H4198 = 535psi/grain with "estimated" peak pressure @ 35.2K and speed above 2,950fps. It appears the 195bx can be shot to 2950 without sabot disrupting pressures (now will it shoot).......range time will tell> Thanks TG Mark
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2011 8:59:22 GMT -5
:)Dave w is correct h4198 is a faster powder then 130. I don't understand ? on reload benchs burn rate chart n130 is rated faster than h4198. Is that site not correct? Greenhorn
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Post by Savage Shooter on Mar 23, 2011 9:25:59 GMT -5
:)Dave w is correct h4198 is a faster powder then 130. I don't understand ? on reload benchs burn rate chart n130 is rated faster than h4198. Is that site not correct? Greenhorn Depends solely on the "tested" use application. Powder can move around on any burn rate chart as much as 5-10 "places" based on individual applications. Burn rates charts are a guide at best not gospel.
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Post by edge on Mar 23, 2011 9:49:58 GMT -5
Powders have different shapes and coatings to speed up burn reduce burn etc.
One problem with a burn rate chart that is not a spreadsheet is how do you show powders of the same rate?
5 powders with the same burn rate would be listed as 1 - 5 when they are really tied!
Then there is the energy per grain which is not burn rate.
Powley works on IMR powders because they are single based with the same energy per grain.
With double base powders you can have wildly varying amounts of energy per grain but having the same burn rate.
edge.
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