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Post by Richard on Oct 7, 2010 11:20:18 GMT -5
pposey..............I had already sent you a response to your PM. I had not checked the forum and did not know this thread existed or I would have expounded more ....but will do so now.
If you can be satisfied with shooting saboted bullets then this is what I would do: First of all, PROOF the barrel. Look into some of my DUPLEX loads (not that mild triplex ;D) prior to week #62 (I think) when I was still using the 23" bulged PN. Get one of the "hot" loads that was up in the 3,000 fps range........or something close, depending on powders available, and charge up your rifle. You could put it in your lead sled and maybe bungy cord it so it does not jump out. Put the string on the trigger and "remotely" fire it. If it does not blow up, maybe do it again? This way, you will assure yourself that the gun is safe to fire with loads of lesser pressue. Next, I would check the feel of of bullet and sabot being pushed down the bore (BP removed) (on a cleaned barrel) and see if you still have decent pressure when you get to the bulged area? If so, go to your normal load and "fire for effect!" With sabot less loads, you may find that you loose pressure prior to the bullet being seated. Personally, knowing what I have learned since going to the .45, I could really live with just shooting saboted bullets. I enjoy playing some with sabot less, but still wind up coming back to saboted for my best accuracy. If you want to talk about it more, PM me and I can call you if you don't have a long distance provider.........and no, I do not have a toll free number for Pac-Nor. Also...........I believe you have already shortened your barrel? If so, it had to be from the muzzle end, right? I found from measuring that you can remove about 3 to 3.5 inches from the breech end and still have enough "meat" to cut a full thread. Pac-Nor gives you a generous amount of barrel at full dimension prior to starting the taper to the muzzle. Just run your caliper around the barrel, starting from the existing thread on forward towards the muzzle. Now mark the area where the barrel starts to get narrower. Measure the length of the existing threads and sort of slide that dimension forward to that point and you will see how much can be cut. You can actually go about 1/2" more than that and still be OK. Since that 1/2" will be more under the the barrel nut and you will have plenty in the receiver. Just look at your old .50 barrel and measure the dimension of the threads. Savage is tapering the threads at least 1/2" prior to terminating them. Richard
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Post by pposey on Oct 7, 2010 11:24:41 GMT -5
Borrowed a cell phone to call them,,,, can't do LD here at work,,,, my concern is what could happin if it is double loaded again, I kinda like my eyes, and fingers,,, nose and all that stuff
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Post by Richard on Oct 7, 2010 11:33:33 GMT -5
I can only tell you my experience and that was................I fired over 1400 pretty stiff loads AFTER bulging mine? Richard ( see modification to above post)
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Post by tasaman on Oct 7, 2010 11:34:32 GMT -5
If you don't end up shortening it you can use it for one heck of a cheater bar!
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Post by pposey on Oct 7, 2010 11:55:41 GMT -5
If you don't end up shortening it you can use it for one heck of a cheater bar! sure be one high $$$ cheater bar,,, Richard I have not shortened mine, I ordered it at 21 inches,,, if I can get rid of the bulge and still have enough barrel to burn 31-35 grains of 4759 or a simular powder it could be a doable,,,, anybody with quickload have the capability to figure out how much barrel I would need in front of the breachplug to burn 31-35 grains of a fast powder with a 200 grain bullet?,,,,,
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Post by rangeball on Oct 7, 2010 12:05:46 GMT -5
I think I remember someone posting some time ago that 42gr of N110 under a saboted 250gr in the .50 burns in 14".
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Post by bigmoose on Oct 7, 2010 12:06:34 GMT -5
pposey,
I am one of the folks who say, It can't happen to me.....well it can happen to anyone.
A barrel is just a barrel, happy you can report this and say "I'M FINE"
Good Luck,
I still think ypu have a great first name. Marty
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Post by boarhog on Oct 7, 2010 12:48:36 GMT -5
As a follow-up to my post, I have now marked all my ramrods with red and yellow paint pen. The yellow is more visible, and has already saved me from bulging my 45 Pac-Nor twice! Yes, I said TWICE!! It is a lot easier to do than most would think. A distraction at the range, a lapse of memory, almost anything can cause you to lose track of things. When in doubt, check it out!! Boarhog
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Post by pposey on Oct 7, 2010 12:52:12 GMT -5
14 inches ehhh,,, thats gonna look funny New philisphical quote for the day,,,, “Doubling the projectile and propelant does not imply a doubling of inteligence, in fact it may prove a temporary lack of mental resources" Plato, 2010AD
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Post by Chris Champion on Oct 7, 2010 18:26:54 GMT -5
Posey,
Sorry to hear about your mishap and glad that you're OK.
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Post by shooter on Oct 7, 2010 18:54:57 GMT -5
Sorry to her about what happen.Glad you are okay.
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Post by screwbolts on Oct 7, 2010 19:02:04 GMT -5
14 inches ehhh,,, thats gonna look funny 4759 is listed in many manuals as a mag pistol powder! XMR 5744 was first introduced as a mag pistol powder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have the breech cut and re threaded inside and out to the ax they can cut off and you will have a perfect combo for what ever hunting you choose. This may well be the beginning of the new, Savage / Pac-nor Katahdin model. You may very well start a new trend. ;D:-) ;D ;D ;D Ken Central NY
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Post by Richard on Oct 7, 2010 19:50:47 GMT -5
I wouldn't hesitate to cut three + inches off if you are only using it for a hunting rifle. I would bet the ranch that I could get 25 to 2600 fps out of it with a duplex load. Maybe even more. Richard
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Post by sw on Oct 7, 2010 19:56:53 GMT -5
14 inches ehhh,,, thats gonna look funny 4759 is listed in many manuals as a mag pistol powder! XMR 5744 was first introduced as a mag pistol powder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the 1st powders were of this nature, ie moderately fast burners. Why? Because, w/o a constriction(throat/land engraving) the saboted bullet moved too easily for a slower(normal for caliber/bullet wt) powder. So the pressure had to get up quickly and this could only be done by a relatively fast burning powder. RL-7, 3400,5744,4759,and VV-110(all book powders) all have this characteristic. Now enters duplex. The initial powder gets the pressure up quickly and then the slower gives a longer sustained burn. You can get faster, and more accurate, loads with less peak pressure, but with an overall higher average pressure, thus the faster load. The single faster powder gets the pressure up fast but then it bleeds off quickly. That's why a shorter barrel doesn't have much effect compared to a longer barrel when using factory loads. Make sense?
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Post by dannoboone on Oct 12, 2010 21:44:14 GMT -5
One thing I started doing at the range is leaving all my supplies on another table or just away from the bench. then bring only one bullet,sabot,powder vial, and primer to the bench at a time. As do I. Now, can you imagine out of such a short list of items to remember, I forgot the powder...............TWICE?? It's rather embarrassing even with no one else around, to see the witness mark disappear, just prior to the "klunk" sound!
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Post by ourway77 on Oct 16, 2010 5:23:22 GMT -5
PPosey I owe you a load of graditude for owning up to what happened to you. I was at the range the other day with two ML'er IIs. I was shooting the blue one and for some unknown stupidity on my part I double loaded my Henry Ball. Your post kept ringing in my ears did I shoot one or I didn't shoot one but loaded 2? Sure enough I did the big nasty. When I got home I took the bolt and breech plug out and wallah two loads and 2 bullets fell to the floor. It may have been w/o your honesty I may have shot it. In the future I am going to make it a practice to leave the rifle I am not shooting in its case. I now realize how easy it is too make the very same mistake. I wish you luck with your barrel. Thanks Lou
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Post by Jon on Oct 16, 2010 7:22:33 GMT -5
Ourway77. +1
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Post by pposey on Oct 16, 2010 21:16:54 GMT -5
Hey glad to be of help,,,,,,
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Post by ozark on Oct 16, 2011 20:17:01 GMT -5
I would not shoot or adivse others to shoot a through a bulged barrel. As the new load passes by the buldge it could obutrate and then be forced into a smaller area causing a problem. Also, the sabot could expand through the bulge and then lose its normal shape when forced into the normal size bore. These are just my thoughts and I may well not be correct. But I would not shoot it. Gases under pressure could easily bypass the load in the bulged area. Would this pressure forward and behind the load create a problem? I don't know. I just know finding a bulged barrel would be my last load fired through that gun until it was replaced, cut off or discarded. Ozark.
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Post by zakjak221 on Oct 17, 2011 16:00:42 GMT -5
Well said Lou! Its easy to talk about the "right" things we do,not the wrong. Good luck with your barrel PPosey. Mark
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Post by bush7mmstw on Oct 17, 2011 18:20:22 GMT -5
Sorry to hear about the mishap but glad to know the quality of these barrels can hold up to the pressure when something goes wrong. Really glad to hear nobody was hurt.
-Bush
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Post by pposey on Oct 17, 2011 19:51:51 GMT -5
Yep been over a year now and I am still triple checking the ML everytime I shoot,,, have some bright red tape around all three of the ramrods I use,,,, folding hunting rod, old shotgun cleaning/range rod, and the spare I keep in the truck,,,
I just couldn't feel comfy shooting that barrel unless the bulge was completly removed and then it would have just been too short. Thanks to those that helped me figure out what to do and to end up with the Encore conversion I now have,,, I appreciate it more than I can say,,,
Everyone be safe!
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Post by bigmoose on Jul 29, 2014 6:02:57 GMT -5
happy your fine, wiseman once said "to Err is human" I guess he couldn't spell error
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Post by pposey on Jul 29, 2014 7:44:39 GMT -5
Yup the Pacnor was destroyed but I'm fine. Been outa action for a few weeks from a lumbar sprain,
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