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Post by pposey on Oct 6, 2010 19:43:40 GMT -5
My HUGE slice of humble pie is served, via bulged pac-nor.
I did it this afternoon, plain and simple double load all my fault, 2 loads of 54 grains 4198 and 2 flat base barnes.
A few days ago I went shooting at my uncles for distance,,, after this I loaded a load and went woods walking on the off chance I might kick up a buck,,,, walked till dark and when returning to the truck unprimed the gun and left the load in, today when I got home from work I wanted to add a couple clicks of elevation to the scope settings so I did thai and loaded a load to check the change. .. My normal ramrod was packed in my fanny pack in my truck so I grabed a cleaning rod I usta use with my 50 cal and used it,,, I did not expect the witness marks to line up as they were for the 50 cal.
When I shot the gun came up out of the lead sled hard, and back hard, I knew what I had done right away, took the gun in and yep there is a bulge,,,,,,,,,, I was and still am distgusted with myself. Pulled the scope and transfered it to my backup ML2, a stock .50 cal I've never shot, will try to get a low book load moa of deer by this weekend.
Richard you bulged a pac-nor and had it recut to be usable didn't you??? who did the recutting??? shortie may end up realllllyyyy short.
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Post by pposey on Oct 6, 2010 19:45:48 GMT -5
Oh and does anybody have the toll free number for pacnor handy?? I really would like a sporter weight pacnor in say 22 inches,,,,
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Post by Rifleman on Oct 6, 2010 19:47:08 GMT -5
OOPS! Glad your allright Posey
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Post by deadon on Oct 6, 2010 20:29:33 GMT -5
Sorry It happened Posey,but I am happy for all of us that the Pacnor Only bulges and does not explode Rusty
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Post by fireevangelism on Oct 6, 2010 20:30:04 GMT -5
I did a piece of stupid that good a couple weeks ago. Except, I cleaned the barrel (on a loaded charge) and when I pulled the last patch out it got stuck in the end of the barrel (thooop). So I decided to pop a cap to get the patch out and boy did that patch come out.....and so did a 250 grain sst right into the asphalt sidewalk at the shooting range. I thank God for that patch getting stuck cause I was getting ready to load another charge and I wasn't shooting off a led sled. I probably would have caught it with the witness mark, but maybe not. I also thank God for letting me be the only one on the range at the time to see my stupidity, and so no one else got hurt(asphalt flew everywhere). I've since taped the barrel whenever I leave a charge in my gun overnight or else taped my trigger guard. My guardian angels aren't paid near enough:)
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Post by zakjak221 on Oct 6, 2010 20:38:09 GMT -5
Posey,
Sorry to hear about your barrel, but at least your OK. Do you have a backup ML for deer season?
Mark
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Post by olegburn on Oct 6, 2010 20:43:41 GMT -5
Sorry to hear of your trouble there,pposey! If shorty gets shorter-that will make it a Pac-Nor .45 Carbine? Not trying to be funny-just love them carbines in the woods... olegburn
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Post by fishhawk on Oct 6, 2010 20:44:07 GMT -5
Some might bulge or do worse to a barrel and never post it fearing ridicule, by you doing so intensely reminds all of us to be as careful as we can. It might prevent gun damage or an injury to someone that reads it. Glad you weren't hurt. Another bulging story from a while back made me quit just removing the primer.
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Post by pposey on Oct 6, 2010 20:57:03 GMT -5
Yep I did it I don't mind one bit fessin up,,, I'm so darn paranoid about such things to,,, all it took though was using a old shotgun cleaning rod with a witness mark in the wrong place, a very careless mistake,
I can just see it now a 17 inch pacnor .45,,,, gezzzzzzzzzzz... I got the backup on target this afternoon but the sabots are 4-5 years old and I'm not even sure if they are the mmp high pressure sabots or not,,, they are mmp though,short black with the smooth cuped base,,,,
If not for the lead sled I would not have been able to use my arm for a couple weeks with my shoulder as it is anyway. It saved my bacon.
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Post by ET on Oct 6, 2010 21:07:49 GMT -5
Some might bulge or do worse to a barrel and never post it fearing ridicule, by you doing so intensely reminds all of us to be as careful as we can. It might prevent gun damage or an injury to someone that reads it. Glad you weren't hurt. Another bulging story from a while back made me quit just removing the primer. My exact sentiments also. It can so easily happen to anyone. As expressed by others am glad you weren't hurt and deer season is still salvageable. The pride takes a long time to heal but will fully heal. Ed
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Billy
8 Pointer
Posts: 188
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Post by Billy on Oct 6, 2010 22:07:31 GMT -5
Sorry to hear that, Posey, but thanks for the reminder that it can happen to any of us. FIREEVANGELISM, I doubt you were trying to be funny, but I can't stop smiling at your post. I love you guys that are so honest about your mistakes. I hope it can keep the rest of us from making the same mistakes. Billy
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Post by sw on Oct 6, 2010 22:21:59 GMT -5
PPOSEY, I expect you remember when I did the same with my 50 cal SMI. Fortunately, these guns have protected us. You are not alone. Most pilots who have had a "gear-up" never have one again. I think there is a parallel here.
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Post by boarhog on Oct 6, 2010 22:47:37 GMT -5
pposey, I can sure relate and empathize! Been there, done that, got the T-shirt! In my case, the witness mark doesn't do much good when I paid it no attention. The second barrel I bulged was just before deer season, and I was so disgusted with myself, I didn't really want to go hunting. My Grandson talked me into taking him, so I just loaded up the bulged barrel, and ended up shooting a big old doe. I later found that the bulged barrel would still shoot 3-4 inches, which was about normal for it. I have no idea if the bulge is a safety issue, but if it isn't, you may want to try it. With your mild loads, it may still group well enough to hunt. Boarhog
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Post by sagittarius on Oct 6, 2010 23:25:19 GMT -5
I can't make fun of you because I doubled loaded my Remington ML a couple of years ago. Fortunately, I got away with it with no harm done. If I bulged my Pac-Nor, I would just call it a day and order a new one, rather than have it cut down, or save for a new one but that's just me. Good luck with your decision; glad you're still in one piece.
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Post by 10ga on Oct 7, 2010 0:07:35 GMT -5
Glad you're OK. Now is your chance to have the barrel rebored and start reporting on .54 cal SMLing. That be neat. I do have a 50 cal 16.25" blue MLII barrel I took off of an action I rebarreled. That short enough. I originally got it from Rifleman. I'm feelin kinda sassy today. 10 ga
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Post by edge on Oct 7, 2010 0:10:46 GMT -5
Sorry to hear that. I might suggest that anyone that uses more than one ramrod may want a load mark on their barrel, perhaps clear nail polish or something. You could load with a stick and it would not matter , just load, hold your finger at the muzzle on the rod and compare where the end reaches compared to your barrel mark.....no guessing! edge.
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Post by pposey on Oct 7, 2010 7:01:26 GMT -5
Yep, I could have , but was in to much of a hurry to go unpack the normal rod with the mark,,,, and If I had thought about it the normal rod was packed because I had been hunting,,,, was a bad brain fart on my part, very bad, and expensive,,,, and Yes I think my next barrel will have a mark around it,,, perhaps in bright orange paint!!!! the bulge seemed pretty close to the breech plug, what is the shortest anyone has gone with a ML2 barrel?? didn't Rifleman have a 16 inch didn't he??? I'm wondering if I can have the barrel re cut to get rid of the bulge but I could end up with a 17-18 inch barrel,,,,, I would HAVE to use 110 or 4759 or a simular powder then, but had about decided to go that powder route anyway. And what are the safety factors with a bulged barrel? I've done some searching but cant fint the threads where Richard bulged his pacnor,,,,, I'm kinda leary of using it with a bulge even if it shoots, that point in the barrel would have to be weaker would it not? and lastly for those who know such things,,,,,, If I can have the breechplug moved up into the bulge area, would the strenth of the barrel be more in dought,,, if the bulged area is in the threads of the breech plug would that be exceptable?
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Post by dave d. on Oct 7, 2010 7:47:54 GMT -5
:)pp im so glad you were not hurt and sorry to hear about your mishap but I would strongly suggest replacing the barrel if the funds will allow it. If I remember right Richard's barrel still had a bulge in it even after it was cut back it just moved it right under the powder charge( Richard can correct me if I'm wrong). Good thing you have a back up I know you were looking forward to slapping something with those 195's.
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Post by Harley on Oct 7, 2010 8:30:18 GMT -5
I think PPosey's original post on this thread should be in the TIPS section, required reading for all.
Harley
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Post by fishhawk on Oct 7, 2010 8:33:43 GMT -5
One thing I started doing at the range is leaving all my supplies on another table or just away from the bench. then bring only one bullet,sabot,powder vial, and primer to the bench at a time.
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Post by olegburn on Oct 7, 2010 8:54:22 GMT -5
I always check my Ram rod to be sure it's not to the mark, well one day I lent my son my ML'er he returned it and put it in my safe loaded, Unaware I put a patch on my jag and run it down the barrel I always leave the rod in the barrel to make sure the patch gets burned. Well it got burned alright. The bang scared the daylights out of me. The load pushed the ram rod out it hit the concrete and to this day I have never found it The stock cracked. But the amazing part the barrel of the Knight with stood all the pressure and the barrel showed no signs of any bulge. At the range after I got a new stock it shot as it did prior to my stupidity. It just goes to show no matter what your age or how long you have hunted something like this can happen. Thank God I wasn't hurt or someone else hurt. I search every where for that ram rod and to this day still haven't found it ,l the bullet richoceted off the concrete and went through my camping trailer and flattened the spare tire inside a compartment. It's a lesson I will never forget, everytime I load a ML'er this comes to mind. lou Stories like that make my palms sweat every time! Friend wanted to snap a primer on his Rem.ML couple years back while inside the camp we hunt-gun turned out was loaded and he shot the concrete floor mere inches from his foot. I saw the chunk of concrete missing and shrapnel marks on the wall next to it.Some shrapnel cut his leg but not bad. He could not hear for few minutes. Thank God no one was near him. pposey,don't mean to pile-up in your thread,but the benefit of guys who admit their mistakes does serve folks well,I hope. Saying you hear in training: AD are the two types-ones that already happen and ones that will happen! olegburn
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Post by edge on Oct 7, 2010 9:10:41 GMT -5
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Post by pposey on Oct 7, 2010 9:42:41 GMT -5
Thanks Edge,,,, pile away on the thread,,,, at first I was embarassed that I had goofed,,, then I was and still am mad at myself,,,, I am at least in good company and am glad to provide a reminder to all to be careful!
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Post by chuck41 on Oct 7, 2010 10:00:46 GMT -5
Every bulged barrel I have ever hear of was with sabots, including mine. Loading one complete powder/bullet/sabot on top of another will bulge a barrel every time and it's easy to do, especially if you are careless, forgetful, or stupid. (I'll let others decide which category I belong to) Pposey, I want to apologize for telling you only a couple days ago how to do it. You and I are living proof that it is really EASY TO DO!! I just thank God that these barrels are made as tough as they are. You and I could have both been very seriously injured yet we were not. Only thing that was wounded was our pride and a bit of a dent in our pocketbooks. Thank you Savage and PacNor!
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Post by olegburn on Oct 7, 2010 10:04:28 GMT -5
pposey, I was always jealous of your PN Shorty-I hunt in woods mostly myself and even thought about shortening my .50, and felt bad about your predicament. Now,if you can shorten it more ;D,it will make me even more jealous. ;D Feeling embarrassed,mad are all just feelings and do pass.Experience you get from mistakes is yours to keep for good. Money can be always made.Thankfully,you're OK and that matters. oleg
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Post by tasaman on Oct 7, 2010 10:24:31 GMT -5
I hear a new "shorty" project coming! Sorry to hear about the barrel. I had a bulged barrel on a stock Savage and I'm a pretty honest person but I never did figure out why or how it happened. All bullets and holes accounted for. No missing loads. Stuff happens and it sucks.
Ed
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Post by pposey on Oct 7, 2010 10:44:57 GMT -5
Thanks guys,,, and I now know it's Chucks fault!
I don't know if I will be able to shorten it enough to get rid of the bulge, If not I will get a new one , no rush now for sure
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Post by rangeball on Oct 7, 2010 10:52:20 GMT -5
Is continuing to shoot a slightly bulged barrel possible?
Brother-in-law double shot his last fall. Apparently stored it loaded last January and double loaded it when he went to check zero the next fall. He said it was a weird BAAAANG and there were two holes in the target. 42gr N110/250sst/42gr N110/250sst. I told him to check for a bulge, he said he didn't see one and I'm pretty sure he meant he looked at the barrel and it wasn't highly visible. Don't know if it's bulged or not, but he continued to shoot it last season with great success, took 5 does with it.
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Post by pposey on Oct 7, 2010 11:12:54 GMT -5
It is possible, I'm just not sure that I am real comfy with the thought,,,, what if I double that sucker again?
Mine has a slight bulge, you can feel it with a patch and you can see it, I need to measure and see how much barrel will need to be removed to remove the stressed area of the barrel away from the pressure portion of the barrel
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Post by rangeball on Oct 7, 2010 11:15:07 GMT -5
I'll look closer at his the next time I'm around it.
Can anyone with quickload or powley calculate what the pressure was likely to be from that load with that ejection weight? Would be interesting to see how much it took to bulge.
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