More .45 info..........................

[Richard]

The day dawned bright and sunny with temperatures going from 40* up to about 75* by the time we left the range at 12:30 pm
Herman went turkey hunting at his club so it was only Bill and I.
The first four targets were shot with an improved duplex I don't think I had shot before (Edge???) (he knows everything I shoot ) I increased the main charge by one grain. 17/57---N-110/N-130.
Target #1 shot with the XTP looked just fair, but I decided to to right out to 200 yards (the target above #1 which I forgot to number) but switched to the SST. Shot #1 was puzzling???I either used the wrong stadia line (second one down) or it was just an unexplained "flyer?" Solid hold, no excuse? I was intending to use the first stadia line but could have goofed? Anyway, continued to fire shots 2,3,4 and 5 which looked pretty good! But wanted a FIVE shot group so I added #6 which went into the group
Target #3 used the remaining four shots (after I fired that 6th. on #2) (only at 100 yards). I also used the the same First stadia line so you can see the difference in POI on both the 100 and 200 yard targets (both the same POA) This group did not fair as well as the 200 yard group. Velocities seemed confusing until I noticed that I was getting some angled sunlight on my photo cells. A shield subsequently rectified the situation
Target #4, still with the same duplex only shot sabot less with the 200 gr. FTX. The first three shots were great but then "who knows what happened?" Bot the fourth and fifth shots loaded tight upon starting but then went down the bore ok? I keep coming up with unexplained mysteries!
On Target #5 I went to an old duplex that had given me a great five shot group back in January. It also proved to be pretty good today also! Note the January velocity in 30* weather was actually higher than todays velocity. Only one draw back today............................On the second shot? The sabot blew! I heard a different report.........Less recoil.............extremely low velocity..........No shot on the paper! NO explanation? The rest of the shots went off without a hitch?
On target #6 I took the same load out to 200 yds. and it did not do well Could be the XTP's just don't fly well at long(er) range?
It seems that every week I come up with some unexplained phenomena But..........thats what keeps me searching for the ultimate load ;D
Richard

[bigmoose]

Richard,
At what point do you repace the vent liner?
I like vent that starts at .27 to 28, after .33 I dump them.

[Richard]

I will generally replace them at about .034. This trip I started with a slightly used one at .033". When I got home, I found it was almost .037" . Although, the fifth group was still pretty good?
Richard

[deadon]

Richard, with an ES of only 32 shouldn't group 2 be tighter than group 5

[Jon]

Richard as usual a great report'
Jon

[Jed]

Richard...that group #5 looks really good. It's surprising that it doesn't hold together better at the longer range. At 200 yards, the load used in group # 2 clearly did better. Also, it was more consistent with the same powder/bullet/sabot combination at 100 yards. Perhaps you could tinker with that combo a little more to really get something great at 200 yards. I don't know, change the sabot out for a different style or a grain of powder higher or lower...

Also, where do you print out your paper for targets? I really like them and would like to get some.

[Richard]

Deadon...........Group two is at 200 yards and group 5 is 100 yards.
Jed...........It may only be theory, but we are dealing with "pistol" bullets! This is a 200 XTP designed to be shot at pistol velocities at "more normal" pistol distances. This is in now way, shape or form, a rifle/competition bullet. They are not made to the standards a rifle bullet is made. Jacket wall thickness can vary, causing in-balance, along with imperfections in the lead cores. The manufacturing quality is not the same as a custom or competition type bullet. I should have shot the SST again at 200 but was curious as to how the XTP would do...........obviously, not too well. Lets face it, none of these bullets we shoot compare to a bullet such as the Hornady A-Max, Sierra Match King, Nosler Competition or ANY of the custom benchrest bullets. Yes, there are some smaller bullet makers such as Parker, but even them, I personally believe, don't hold tolerances to the standard of good custom bullets. Throw in the fact that the XTP is ballistically an inferior design with low BC and any little wind will move it around........particularly at longer ranges where it is rapidly slowing down. RB had indicated that he got some of his best groups from the .45 with 300 gr. SST's. I shot some a while back and got decent results at 300 yards but then you get into the recoil factor and rainbow trajectories? From a technical stand point, the SST's should generally out shoot the XTP's at the longer ranges. Out to 100 or so, they are both flying fast enough that you don't notice the difference. So, for general load testing, I try to shoot the cheaper XTP's at 100. SST's, XTP's and 195 Barnes all are about equal at 100 as far as accuracy.
I have a local Copy shop print my targets. Rangeball supplied the format from a place called...............TARGETZ. I sort of fit two targets onto one 8.5 x 14 (I think that it, Legal size?) sheet. In doing so, I had to cut the name of the company off the target. I then had them run off on "card stock" They produce much better holes than those on computer paper. Not all compy joints have or will print on card stock?

Richard

[Jon]

Richard I have a couple of hundred Lehigh bullets 185 and 200 if you are interested I'll send you some of each all I ask if interested how many would you need for a good test and would you like them with tips which come seperate I think they look great but have not been able to give them a fair test Lehigh will make you almost any thing you desire. They are not cheep but the qulity I think is worth while. I would not want to shoot them as often as you do but you may find them interesting I also have some 150's that are steel and coated just an offer if you havn't tried them yet. I'm sure lehigh whould be interested in any input good or bad. They try to please. They are all 40 cal.
Jon

[boarhog]

Richard,
As always, good report. I always learn something from your range reports.

Last Saturday, I shot that 5/65 duplex of N-110/N-120 under a 195 gr Barnes/Knight bullet, and was shocked to see the load average over 3000 fps instrumental at 15ft. I wouldn't have thought 5 gr less bullet weight and 1" more barrel would make the difference in my speed and yours? It was close to 80* when I shot that load.
BH

[deadon]

Richard, 200 yrds Holy moooooly Great group ;D

[Jed]

Richard,

Interesting theory about the inconsistency of the bullets. That seems pretty logical for bulk-produced bullets. So, to see where these loads really are, would it make sense then to shoot the SST at 100 and 200 yards with both duplexes for consistency's sake? Perhaps you already have... Obviously it shoots well with the 5/65 N110/N120 at 100 yards.

I don't think I clearly communicated what I was trying to say in my first post....but you responded well!

PS - thanks for the info on the targets. I think I'll try to make those in Microsoft Word and then print them out on card stock. I never thought to use card stock before.

[ET]

Richard

As always enjoy reading your weekly range session report.
Know what you mean when you experience an unknown phenomenon or seeking that ultimate load.
In a way I always hope to improve my loads and not quickly find that ultimate load or my interest in shooting might quickly diminish. I believe the challenge is more motivating than just reaching the finish line.


Ed

[Richard]

ET............this whole process has just been fun for me. Each trip to the range with a new load leaves me wondering if this is going to be the "honey hole!" Along with all the "tinkering" it has just been an enjoyable journey. One which I also enjoy sharing with the great groups of people on this forum. Heck, I got guys like my friend Jon who are willing to send me "stuff to test" You can't beat that with a stick! Then there was Edge who I used to butt heads with? Now I think we have a better understanding of one another Each of us has weaknesses and strong points and we are able to feed off of them for the good of everyone.
Thanks Edge for keeping this board afloat!
Richard

[rangeball]

Apr 13, 2010 19:44:43 GMT -5 Jed said:

Richard,

Interesting theory about the inconsistency of the bullets. That seems pretty logical for bulk-produced bullets. So, to see where these loads really are, would it make sense then to shoot the SST at 100 and 200 yards with both duplexes for consistency's sake? Perhaps you already have... Obviously it shoots well with the 5/65 N110/N120 at 100 yards.

I don't think I clearly communicated what I was trying to say in my first post....but you responded well!

PS - thanks for the info on the targets. I think I'll try to make those in Microsoft Word and then print them out on card stock. I never thought to use card stock before.

Jed, I've attached the target pdf. Let me know if it doesn't work for you and I'd be happy to email it.