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Savage Muzzleloading Message Board
"The Internet's First Message Board For the Savage Muzzleloader" Since December, 4 2000 This forum is dedicated exclusively for the discussion of the Savage Muzzleloader. This message board is not affiliated with Savage Arms. Please note that any loads used that are not in the Savage owner's manual are used at the owner's own risk, this forum's owner will not be held liable for any damage to equipment from using said loads. DO NOT USE SMOKELESS POWDER IN ANY MUZZLELOADER OTHER THAN THE SAVAGE
figured out, the theory flopped Note: All .45 cal. loads! Well, today was a beautiful day for shooting at our club. Sunny, starting out at 35* 7:00 a.m. and going up to 70* by noon. (I actually kind of wish it was more cloudy for chronographing ) So, the first four targets were shot with the same Duplex: Ten grains of N-110 under 60 gr. of N-120. Heres the dilemma: Target #1: shots one and two exactly the same velocity and dead center (just about). Shot #3 was a tad higher and 30 fps faster.......OK, I can buy that. Shot #4 back by the first two...Then shot #5 goes 30 fps slower but does not impact lower? Go figure Still a decent group. (200 gr. XTP) Target #2 200 gr. SST Target #3 195 Barnes. Since the Barnes shot pretty good I took it out to 200 yards but it did not impress for target #4 Target #5 was sabot less with the 225 FTX and another duplex. On target #6 at 200 yards I thought I was going to be low using the second stadia line so I used the fourth one.............It hit way high in my last 200 yard group. So as not to confuse that group, on my next shot I bracketed the distance I needed to get on the dot; I then used the second stadia line. It hit just to the left of the dot. I could tell from the stadia lines that the first shot would have been where I indicated on the target. Anyway, that groups was nothing to brag about either I would have shot more with that 10/60 duplex at 200 but was fresh out! Herman did not bring the ML! Richard
Deadon makes a good point BUT there may always be one better. Keep up the good work. I can't as much as I wish I could but I sure do appreciate it. It makes my next range visit better, again thank you and extend that to Herman and Bill I could only wish I had friends like that close to me. Jon
I think it's interesting how well the XTP bullets shoot...as I've been reading about Savages and smokeless shooting, XTPs often have produced great groups. And yet they're a hollow point! They look "ugly" compared to the SSTs and other pointy bullets..but you can't argue with the results.
Deadon..........Its just one of many loads that shoot well in the .45 PN. I am still shopping for the load that can consistently give me "One Hole" (literally) five shot groups. Until I find it, I'll just have to keep playing ;D Richard
Richard, Target #1 is a nice round group! Purdy too!! Seems like I remember you getting a faster av speed and smaller ES with the 5/65 N-110/N-120 load, but I don't have many good brain cells left. Those Dirty rat Fliers sure do bug me when I have a sweet 3 or 4 shot group going into under an inch, then one or two shots open it up 3-4"! Still a lot of fun! Boarhog
Boarhog.........Edge and I were just discussing what you said. Increasing the N-110 seems to have an adverse effect on speed . It has not hurt accuracy, but has literally slowed down the bullet. I may try upping the N-120 to maybe 66 or 67 gr. and keeping the N-110 around 5 gr. The 5 gr. should build in a bit of reliability for a colder weather hunting load. As Edge felt, the 71 gr. straight N-120 might not be as reliable as a load with a few grains of N-110. Just more information for another test session Next week, I have to break out the target rifle to play with some new 108 gr. 6mm Berger bullet for a match on the 10th. I'll give the PN bore a break! ;D Richard
Richard, a lot of us I think are looking for that illusive one hole group I had it with my knight big bore with the DC 260 gr bullet and 80 grs of t7 fff ;D [only 3shot groups back then] but it went to C#$% at 200 yards.I am almost there with my243 but not consistantly. With my ml10 50 cal I am at very consistant,and I mean very consistant 6 inch groups Good luck at the shoot and most of all have a great time ;D
N-110 is too fast. All your high speed loads in almost any rifle are obtained with slower powders. N-110 has its place, but not as a main charge in my .45. Straight N-120 has given some impressive results and speed at 71 gr. But as Edge indicated, it might not be a reliable (ignition wise)cold weather powder by itself. I have gotten great results using 5 gr. of N-110 and 65 gr. of N-120. Richard
Do your best on the 10th! Hope you have a great time and great shooting!
Would AA5744 work as a sub-base to the N-120? I'm not experienced in duplex loads, but 5744 is a really easy to ignite powder and it's not cold-sensitive due to its high nitro-cellulose content (about 20%) (i think that's the right word...).
Richard, I plan to re-try some of my better loads next range session. I had some 65 gr vials of N-120 weighed up to try with 5 gr N-110, but my first shot with only 62 gr N-120 main charge went over 3K, so I thought I wouldn't push it for now. My barrel is only an inch longer than yours, 24".
Today, I got a chance to take the PN apart and give it a good cleaning. I had forgotten to remove the primer from my last shot, and when I did, I noticed that it was pretty well bulged between the rim and where it fits inside the BP. The line between the cup and primer center was smoked. The load was 12/56 N-110/N-130, and it didn't blow the sabot, so I'm thinking I was still in a safe pressure range. Very likely, I just haven't noticed the bulge and smoke line before. This was one of my most consistent loads!
I also told you I would update you on how well those stainless screws hold up as VL. Not too well! Before I started shooting, it measured .031. After, it was about .034. on one end and a bit larger on the other. I think I put about 22 fairly hot shots through it, and I could probably get 30 on one before it gets much over .035. If I could drill 3-5 screws without breaking the bit, it would still be much cheaper than $5.00 each the OEM or Leheigh VLs cost. I broke 2 bits making 3 VLs!
I wish you good luck and straight shooting for your upcoming match!
Boarhog.............I am not doubting what your chronograph read, but 62 gr. of N-120 and 3K seems way fast. 71 gr. in my rifle (one inch shorter) was around 2950 fps.....instrumental 10 ft. from the muzzle. Probably close to 3K at the muzzle. There have been times when for no other reason than, I believe, the sun, velocities jump over 100 fps? And, I know its is a fluke since the impacts on the target are right with the lower velocity shots. Just look at my targets #2 and 3 and you will see what I mean? Big jumps in velocity like that will always show a rise in POI. In my case, its the sun coming in from an angle that is the culprit. I'm working on a new shield for my chronograph box to help eliminate this effect. Richard
Richard, That was 62 gr N-120 with a 5 gr booster of N-110. The first shot was 3018 fps if I remember correctly, with the other 4 around 2975. I know that I was shocked when I saw the 3K readout! Unless you shoot through 2 chronos at once, I wonder how you could verify the speed? I tried shooting without the diffusers several times in the past, without success. Ken Oehler told me they help the eyes see the bullet better with and without Sun. Since I put a new cable on my start screen, the only glitch I've had was when a sabot blew twice, and another time when I didn't take the time to use a laser boresighter to align the screens. I have been careful to measure the 3 screens for proper spacing, and have placed the start screen 10' from the muzzle. I am not discounting your thoughts about direct sunlight causing higher readings. I just don't know. Two weekends back, I didn't have any problem readouts until it started getting dark. Then I had a couple of flashing speeds, that are an indication of a discrepancy between the main channel speed and the proof channel. I wonder how well those infra-red screens work?
Look forward to seeing how you are going to address your sun problem because I'm getting sun problems (angled sun position) that are showing up as error on my chronograph readings. Hate waiting for some cloud cover to shoot. ;D