|
Post by hunter on Mar 21, 2010 8:52:45 GMT -5
check out the 209 conversion on the modern muzzleloader board that I have and been trying out the last week. Right now they are only available in 50 cal. but I am going to have him make me two breech plugs for my 45. I am having 8 or 10 of the 50 cal. made for me as I want 3 for myself and 2 or 3 for my hunting buddies. This run is going to be 80.00 each and I do not know how often he will set up to run again. PM me if interested in one of these conversions
These conversion kits are now available.
|
|
|
Post by sabotloader on Mar 21, 2010 16:43:27 GMT -5
hunterHere are the pics... I still remain a little negative on this conversion because you still have to handle a bare 209 primer... But for $80 -t beets the heck out of the $200 conversion...
|
|
|
Post by hunter on Mar 21, 2010 17:15:33 GMT -5
Sabotloader,
Thanks for posting the pictures!!
I have hunted with the savage which has this set up for 2 years and like it a lot better than needing the pick to remove primers from the nipple. Also I have 2"pieces of plastic tubing which the primers fit into each end and you can load using these if the primers are to small to handle with gloves. Does not most other 209 conversions require the shooter to handle the bare primers also, unless you go with a cased primer.
|
|
|
Post by sabotloader on Mar 21, 2010 21:51:59 GMT -5
hunter
The rubber tube is an excellent thought... but in repsonse to the other thought - you can use a capper to load 209's directly into the breech plug in all the ML's that I have. The Knight and the Savage are the only ones that I know of that you can not.
Then also with the open system you do not have to worry about the primer becoming stuck in the nose of the adapter. i know with the Savage and the Knight - you often have to close the bolt and re-snap the trigger to get the primer loose of the holder.
Most often in the Remington you use the tip of the capper tool to flip the spent primer out of the nipple, if it doesn't just fall out.
|
|
|
Post by mountainam on Mar 22, 2010 10:59:03 GMT -5
Sabotloader, Why don't you explain how my buddy Hunter's conversion "beets" the heck out or our $200 conversion. Especially when I gave him a copy of my design sheet. Hunter obviously wanted to tweek the design to fulfill his and his circle of hunting buddies needs and keep in common what we both feel works. Hunter, where's my cut---LOL!! I started out the same way. I was impressed with Al's and Dave D's conversions. I wanted to do what they did and stray in a direction that would serve my needs. IIRC one of their sources breechplugs then cost $90. Is that too much?? Only if you have no concept on what it takes to do it properly. Hunter is definitely on the right track. He has an experienced machinist fabricating his pieces. I wouldn't give my machining to a guy with a lathe in his barn that likes to tinker. I want an expert. Heck, I remember when I first posted my conversion. You wrote that you liked it. I hope you were sincere? I wanted to share our design with others of like mind. I get it that you have a hangup on the price. You've written so on numerous occasions. Hunter has his setup as an owner install---We do not. Hey, maybe that's a difference! When I get called on the phone or PM'd about us selling someone the parts and they self install, I direct them to guys like you and from now on I will also direct them to Hunter. Let the customers decide what they want. Denny has a waiting list for our conversions. Every 700ML owner that walks through his door that is able to hold and cycle the prototype is back within the week with their rifle. Sorry, no $$$ complaints.
|
|
|
Post by sabotloader on Mar 22, 2010 12:25:24 GMT -5
mountainam
Not sure what i can tell you, but my implication was reflective of price... $80 is far more aceptable to me for the conversion of the Rem 700ml; than is a conversion that costs $200 and requires you to spend the time @ trimming - priming - and re-priming. The end results of the $80 conversion is the same as the $200. It is cleaned and it is positive. The positive for the $200 job is the shell could really be easier to load than a bare primer in the hunting situation.
When i first saw you conversion - this one not the $200 this Savage one - I did agree that it held promise and I still do. Even my first look at the $200 conversion was really positive - positive until you suggested the price. It just not make sense to spend that much on a conversion of a 700ml. Either of them is so much better than the anything Remington dreamed up at the time and even the Canadian conversion. It is excellent - I would use it (the Savage conversion) every day all day at the range. I just not sure I would feel comfortable with it in a hunting situation - but Huntiners tube ideal might solve that also. My next question would be after extensive shooting do any of the primers get hung in the adapter as they with the Savage? That would also bother me in a hunting situation.
One thing you might consider most ML shooters are tinkerers, just as you are we enjoy doing things for ourselves, we enjoy the investigation, we enjoy solving a problem - those are the reasons we shoot ML's in the first place.
I am not sure you have read either Hunter's or my decription of the our proposed conversions. I beleive he said he had a machinist do his and I have always said that a machinist is doing mine. I certainly do not have the skills to complete the conversion.
I am positive those folks that are completeing the $200 conversion are happy with what they are getting. Heck if I had the $200 I would probably be all over it also. My thing is that the gun is a great gun but it is a hunting gun I need to use in a rotten hunting situations + I really was looking for something that was simple and economical. Remember the gun's value is probably only $250 dollars and in todays world you can buy a whole new rifle that is built to be clean and accurate for a few more dollars if you were going to invest $200 in a conversion.
I am also positive, or at least mostly positive, that most folks would look at your orginal conversion and the one Hunter is doing as the more reasonalbe answer to the conversion of the 700ml. Heck, i really like this one but I have questions in my mind about a couple of points as to whether they would work for me. Even more on point is if mine bolt conversion is going to cost $60 and Hunter's is $80 - kinda think you would be crazy to use mine especially if you can work by my 2 bit concerns.
I do have one other concern, about the extended nose of the breech plug into the barrel. Will that plug also work in a 45 cal and in a 54 cal will it allow powder to drop down beside the extended nose? If it does might it not cause some minor accurracy problems?
|
|
|
Post by mountainam on Mar 22, 2010 13:49:54 GMT -5
Sorry, I never had a Savage conversion. You may be confusing me with Dave D or Al. I think one of Daves that he showcased was built that way. The only idea that I think Savage got right is the ventliner. Others disagree.
|
|
|
Post by sabotloader on Mar 22, 2010 15:31:51 GMT -5
Sorry, I never had a Savage conversion. You may be confusing me with Dave D or Al. I think one of Daves that he showcased was built that way. The only idea that I think Savage got right is the ventliner. Others disagree. I thought you said that Hunter's conversion was a copy of your conversion.... It looks to me that Hunter's conversion is a Savage... I sure do agree the 'vent liner' was a big step forward and them I thinks Lehigh's vent liner, which is hardened is even a bigger step forward....
|
|
|
Post by hunter on Mar 22, 2010 19:11:29 GMT -5
I will be out of town for a few days so I will answer any questions or PM's friday when I get back.
|
|
|
Post by nmaineron on Mar 23, 2010 9:27:42 GMT -5
Is this intended to be a comercial item? If not, how about some detail,like how much did you have to cut the bolt,if you did.And the pin?
I am curious about the breech plug and its length.
Seems we have gotten to the point that the breechplug need only be long enough to house the primer and ventliner.
That thought brings up something that we haven't talked much about.When using the ventliner,is the flash channel needed or can you fire directly into the nose of the liner.You could effectivly have a plug that is under an inch long.
|
|
|
Post by dave d. on Mar 23, 2010 11:29:01 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by nmaineron on Mar 23, 2010 11:45:54 GMT -5
Kool,seems to me that having the shortest flash channel possible would be the most effecient.
Speaking of these vent liner thingies,I have a passel of sockethead countersunk and buttonhead screws that resemble the vent liner to the T,so I drilled one out to try it and there seemed to be no problem.I am going to drill a few of each to try.
|
|
|
Post by dave d. on Mar 23, 2010 12:11:18 GMT -5
:)mm talk to et he has done a bunch of his own vents and actually sent me a couple and they worked great. He will be able to tell you what screws work best. Yes short and sweet has always worked great for me( less fouling, better ignition .
|
|
|
Post by hunter on Apr 27, 2010 20:32:21 GMT -5
The machinist has been swamped. I will let everybody know when they are ready.
|
|
|
Post by hunter on May 9, 2010 11:14:52 GMT -5
The conversion kits are now available. PM me if interested.
Thanks Fred
|
|
|
Post by hunter on Jun 6, 2010 15:37:24 GMT -5
TTT
|
|
|
Post by Jon on Jun 6, 2010 15:46:43 GMT -5
I know this will get a laugh out of everybody but I'll ask any way what does TTT mean? Sorry for the dumb question but if I don't ask I'll never know. Jon
|
|
|
Post by Al on Jun 6, 2010 16:13:41 GMT -5
To The Top
|
|
|
Post by Jon on Jun 7, 2010 2:38:34 GMT -5
thanks. Does that mean to the top of the page or just the saying to the top. I guess if ingnorance is bliss I'm a happy camper.
|
|
|
Post by Al on Jun 7, 2010 2:55:58 GMT -5
to the top of the page.
you'll see it a lot in the classified sections of the bigger boards.
|
|
|
Post by Jon on Jun 7, 2010 4:51:31 GMT -5
Al thank you for the explanation this is the only board I'm on so thus the confusion on my part. Jon
|
|
|
Post by thelongrider on Jun 20, 2010 21:35:29 GMT -5
I finally got out to shoot the new conversion and I am very impressed. I shot 125 grains of Blackhorn 209 with a hornady .45 cal 225 gr. ftx. with the winchester primer. After 5 shots there was only a trace of carbon. Thanks Fred!
|
|
|
Post by hunter on Jun 26, 2010 18:28:56 GMT -5
thelongrider, You are welcome
|
|
|
Post by hunter on Aug 1, 2010 14:16:28 GMT -5
TTT
|
|
|
Post by sabotloader on Aug 1, 2010 22:44:20 GMT -5
hunter
Do you have them for a 45 cal yet?
|
|
|
Post by hunter on Aug 2, 2010 6:28:55 GMT -5
I still have the one spare 45 plug I had him make for me that I will sell. If there is more interest in the 45 plugs I will have him run some, but as for now he has not run anymore.
|
|
|
Post by sabotloader on Aug 2, 2010 17:52:10 GMT -5
I still have the one spare 45 plug I had him make for me that I will sell. If there is more interest in the 45 plugs I will have him run some, but as for now he has not run anymore. I would be interested in the one 45 conversion... how much?
|
|
|
Post by hunter on Aug 2, 2010 18:02:41 GMT -5
$97.00 + $6.00 shipping.
|
|
|
Post by sabotloader on Aug 2, 2010 21:27:42 GMT -5
hunter
The word I got is we will take it....
mike
|
|
|
Post by hunter on Aug 3, 2010 5:40:15 GMT -5
sabotloader,
I will consider it sold. It is yours.
|
|