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Post by Rifleman on Dec 13, 2009 19:51:50 GMT -5
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Post by spaniel on Dec 13, 2009 21:10:06 GMT -5
Extensively. As soon as my buddy's new job is finalized, he's pulling the trigger for a new Encore barrel in 358 BFG. Looks to be about optimal wildcatting short of being really ridiculous like necking down a shortened BMG case. It will really shine with the 225 Accubond.
I think this shows the thought behind what is, on the face, a rather strange regulation. Even with going to these lengths, the result is not far about a really souped up ML, so the intent of the non-rifle status is preserved.
I'm still a little mystified that you can use a 7mmRemMag pistol legally though...
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Post by deadeye on Dec 13, 2009 23:26:14 GMT -5
yes,as we type reamers are ordered for the 35wssm,trial &error. i cant understand any limitation anywhere-imo,as the states get more $ hungry ,our caliber's increase, imagine that!
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Post by Rifleman on Dec 15, 2009 4:57:34 GMT -5
So is the 358 BFG and the 35 WSSM the same cartridge or are we talking about 2 different rounds all together?
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Post by deadeye on Dec 15, 2009 8:32:23 GMT -5
im not %100 on this as im on the outside looking in @ this point but i believe they are the same as the case is wssm. s&s machine is getting into this and in the exploratory stages,some are doing this already but wont unleash their secret's($$$) kinda like the bad bull scheme. i dont know if i will jump in on this for awhile as this round should deliver results very much like the .45 sabotless ballistically give or take a few.
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Post by dans on Dec 15, 2009 9:14:04 GMT -5
OK guys, I am already in the process of having a Savage 7mm wsm rebarreled to .358 BFG. This is a hinged floor plate model with an inline feed. At last look Buds gun shop had these rifles on sale for $419. Bryan Grant form BFG is receiving a shipment of drop in McGowen barrels, and he holds the patent for 17 different variations of this cartridge. He has the dies, brass, and barrels. One stop shopping. He recently ordered a savage of his own to convert. This cartridge should deliver close to .358 win ballistics and is designed to seat the 225 accubond at the base of the neck and still chamber freely. There is a balllistic edge given to the accubond bullet at long range and you have the advantage of a cartridge gun. My barrel will have a magnum countour or #4,will be 24 inches long and stainless. Complete with scope, mounts, and sling, ready to rock it should weigh about 8 pounds. I won't get delivery until after the first of the year and am eagerly anticipating working with this cartridge/rifle. By the way on other boards this has raised about as much controversy as the smokeless savage ml.
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Post by deadeye on Dec 15, 2009 9:52:07 GMT -5
dans,keep us posted here if you will or by pm on your findings,btw-what twist rate did you go with 1/12?/,1/14?
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Post by dans on Dec 15, 2009 14:50:24 GMT -5
The twist rate is 1 in 14. I have been assured that it will be fine. Also Bryan sent me a dummy cartridge to check feeding and it worked no problem. He will include load data to his customers. Mike 3132 and I will keep everyone up to speed.
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Post by Rifleman on Dec 15, 2009 18:08:40 GMT -5
I would like to have one built on a REM 700 action, what cartridges will work? Can it be built on a standard short action or do you have to start out with a gun orginally chambered for one of the super short mags?
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Post by tcmech on Dec 15, 2009 18:59:51 GMT -5
If it weren't for financial considerations I would get one of the uppers for my AR and finally make it into a legal hunting rifle here in Virginia.
Since I can hunt with a rifle in standard rifle calibers without jumping backwards through a flaming cheerio where I am and I am paying for the kid to go to college I will just leave good enough alone and hunt with the current bolt guns.
Maybe, no scratch that, I definitely will buy one if I win the lottery tonight.
But I really want one.
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Post by mike3132 on Dec 15, 2009 20:01:34 GMT -5
I would like to have one built on a REM 700 action, what cartridges will work? Can it be built on a standard short action or do you have to start out with a gun originally chambered for one of the super short mags? What your looking for is a gun with the bolt head for a Wsm or Wssm. The barrel has to be reamed with the .358 BFG reamer. Mark Penrod who is one of the top three gunsmiths in the US has already assembled a few made on 700 actions. He lives in Columbia City, In. When Dans gets the barrel I'll have his gun put together in a day or two. Seems Varget is the powder of choice for this wildcat cartridge. Mike |
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Post by spaniel on Dec 15, 2009 21:33:42 GMT -5
As long as it's a short action with a WSM bolt face, you are GTG. If I had not just bought my 243Win Savage to convert to a swtich-barrel with a smokeles 45 barrel I'd have gotten into this fray as well. But since Savage uses a larger barrel shank for the WSMs I'm out of luck.
When I looked at the ballistics, I considered there to be no range advantage for the 358 BFG over a smokeless 45 ML. The BFG shoots flatter but the ML bullets will continue to have good terminal ballistics at velocities far lower than the 225 AB will expand.
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Post by Rifleman on Dec 16, 2009 3:52:30 GMT -5
That brings up a good question, just what do the ballistics look like out to 600 yds or so? What is the BC, SD and MV for the 225 accu bond ?
Also what is max working pressure for this cartridge and how was the pressure testing done so we know it is safe?
Thanks Rman
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Post by dans on Dec 16, 2009 9:17:23 GMT -5
Rman, according to Nosler the BC is .421, the SD is .251 and according to other wildcat sites velocity will be in the 2600 range. You would have to run these figures through your favorite ballistic calculator to get 600 yard data. Oh and Nosler says 1800 f/s minimum for expansion. I have no clue what the max working pressure is or how or if pressure testing was done. I do know that there are a lot more of these rifles out there than I realized.
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Post by Rifleman on Dec 17, 2009 4:59:24 GMT -5
Thanks Dans!
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Post by Rifleman on Dec 17, 2009 16:55:21 GMT -5
Using your numbers and a sight height of 1.5 and temp of 65 and an altitude of 400 over sea level with a 200 yd zero I came up with :
100 yds + 2.07
200 yds- 0
300 yds - 8.74
400 yds -25.4
500 yds-51.5
600 yds- 88.93
-------------------------
This is almost exact same as Federal 308 165gr Sierra gameking bthp, load p308c, I got that info from the federal website.
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Post by Rifleman on Dec 17, 2009 16:56:33 GMT -5
OOps I plugged in an MV of 2700 for the 358, that might be a little optimistic, but still it is a real step up over about anything else available for us Hoosers.
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Post by rjhans53 on Dec 19, 2009 6:13:15 GMT -5
There are 35 cal 180 and 200 gr bullets out there as well. The 200's anyway seem to shoot pretty well in my 1:14 358 @ 2400-2450.
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Post by dans on Dec 19, 2009 13:39:22 GMT -5
rjhans53, I would like to hear about your rifle,make, model, barrel, accuracy, builder, in short everything. My interest is high because I am getting closer to having one of my own. Anything you want to share would be appreciated.
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Post by tar12 on Dec 23, 2009 18:24:05 GMT -5
Is this going to be a roll your own or is someone on board already with a commercial offering?
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Post by rjhans53 on Dec 24, 2009 5:46:23 GMT -5
Tar I would guess it's roll your own. I'm not sure but the 358 gremlin might be a better round for 90% of us. I do find it hard to believe (not saying it's not so) that he's getting 2325 fps with a 180 out of a 7.62 x 39 case. But if that's true I have built a 7.62 x 39 on an old mauser action, it feeds ok (one round) and extracts sort of ok most the time so it is something I could put on one of the older mausers I have laying around to see what I think. I did send him an e-mail asking about using a standard 308 case (it would fit the standard bolt face better)with the shoulders pushed back and case shortened but I haven't heard from him yet. It should be slower than a bfg but a little hotter than the gremlin, time will tell which route I take
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Post by mshm99 on Dec 27, 2009 17:21:28 GMT -5
I've been shooting a 12" Bullbery 357-44 Baines Davis contender for years. Remington made a spire point 150 grain core lokt that they don't make any more. I've laid back a good stash of them. I'm necking down 44 mag cases and getting 2150 fps. It is a real deer stomper, as is any good .358. Imagine the velocity he could get with the 150 grain rem.
How many grains of water will it hold? I love small ,efficient bottle neck cartridges.
mshm
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Post by mshm99 on Dec 27, 2009 17:46:31 GMT -5
I answered my own question.
"Case capacity is 57g of H20 - identical to the 358 Winchester (308 Winchester necked to .358)."
OMG all I would have to do is have my barrel re-chambered...........................
mshm
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Post by mike3132 on Mar 24, 2010 17:05:14 GMT -5
I received the McGowen barrel for the .358 BFG and put the gun together the last couple days. I had to grind the barrel channel out to fit the barrel and bedded the stock. I took it out today for the first test and using 200 grain Hornady soft points and Varget powder it shot a .992 5 shot group @ 100 yards. Very impressive for the first group. Ive got another barrel coming in a couple weeks. Im building these guns on a Savage 16 WSM action. I cant wait until gun season! mike
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Post by rjhans53 on Mar 24, 2010 20:13:08 GMT -5
Mike keep us posted, mine is going on a howa (currently is a 300 wsm). I would guess mine is still 3 or 4 weeks out.
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Post by mike3132 on Mar 25, 2010 10:10:35 GMT -5
Mike keep us posted, mine is going on a howa (currently is a 300 wssm). I would guess mine is still 3 or 4 weeks out. I think you mean its a 300wsm dont you? They dont make a 300 wssm to my knowledge. I wish they did it would be a lot easier to make brass for the 358 BFG. Mike |
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Post by rjhans53 on Mar 25, 2010 15:53:23 GMT -5
yep that's what I ment, got carried away with the s's. Thanks for keeping me correct
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Post by dans on Mar 28, 2010 19:44:23 GMT -5
Well got back from vacation and visited my rifle at Mike 3132's place. First impressions are good. The groups with 225 bullets and Varget averaged 1.3 inches for 4 three shot groups. Hunting accurate but not what I would expect from a premium barrel. However the testing continues. I did note that there were no wild fliers just nice groups of varying sizes. The best was 1.1 I did not like McGowens magnum contour so sent the barrel back to be turned down to their sporter contour. It came back nicely tapered at the muzzle but still with plenty of meat from about midway back to the breech. It is still a pretty heavy barrel. I had hoped for a rifle of about 8 pounds when finished and ready to hunt but this one with a Leupold vari X III 3.5 by 10 installed and no sling weighs 9 lb 10 oz. The rifle has some recoil to it so the weight will help tone it down. I was surprised that McGowendid not take the razor edge off of the muzzle after turning it down and that had to be removed. No chronograph work yet as just the search for more accuracy continues. I believe this "cutting edge" rifle will be a slammer in the Savage tradition. Next some more 200 grain bullet testing.
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Post by dans on Mar 29, 2010 18:33:18 GMT -5
Well got an update from Mike 3132 tonight. He tried some 200 grain Barnes bullets and the best group was .40 at 100. Now this is more like what we were expecting accuracy wise. This is starting to get interesting as Warren Page would say.
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Post by dans on May 20, 2010 8:34:31 GMT -5
This is my final results with the .358 BFG wildcat. Mike 3132 reported to me that my rifle was done being tested. He was able to get groups under .5 inch at 100 yards with 180, 200, and 225 grain bullets. I chose the 200 grain Barnes, at 2630 f/s with all groups tested with Benchmark powder under 1 inch. This is the load I will hunt with this fall if the accuracy holds up at 200 yards. It will be zeroed at 200 and this should put it about 2.5 lnches high at 100 and 4 inches or so low at 300 with plenty of retained velocity and energy. I can live with that.
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