CABELAS carrying Savage ML BP ??

[Buckrub]

Makes sense.

Savage just called me back. The product person said that "yes, this ML-BP gun WILL indeed shoot smokeless powder".

So there you go.

[encoreguy]

If I get enough Cabela's points built up I may just have to buy one. Kind of excited about the 26" barrel. I wonder if the new barrel nut is easily taken off to change barrels or nearly impossible?

[tar12]

Jan 14, 2009 18:06:55 GMT -5 encoreguy said:

If I get enough Cabela's points built up I may just have to buy one. Kind of excited about the 26" barrel. I wonder if the new barrel nut is easily taken off to change barrels or nearly impossible?

Go ahead and order one up Kyle and let us know.... ;D

[rossman40]

Joe Degrande told Jim over on savageshooters.com that other differences will be.

Barrel is a large shank rather than the standard shank like on the other 10ML-II models.

Action screw spacing on the BP is 4.40" to match the new centerfeed centerfires, while all other 10ML-II's still use the old staggered-feed spacing of 4.275"

If you think there was a lot of problems with the front mounting screw wait till guys start messing with the large shank actions where the front hole is almost 1/16" shallower.

[getonit]

Looks like a fourth gen. Savage- the ML1's , MLII's pre-accu flat back, MLII accu-trigger round reciever , and now this redesigned one.. It will be interesting to compare accuraccy with the 26" barrel to the 24"- the FPS increase possible could be good or bad.. Rick

[encoreguy]

Jan 14, 2009 18:22:03 GMT -5 tar12 said:

Jan 14, 2009 18:06:55 GMT -5 encoreguy said:

If I get enough Cabela's points built up I may just have to buy one. Kind of excited about the 26" barrel. I wonder if the new barrel nut is easily taken off to change barrels or nearly impossible?

Go ahead and order one up Kyle and let us know.... ;D

Great let me be the guinea pig!

[pointman]

Jan 14, 2009 11:08:07 GMT -5 craigf said:

Buckrub, you make a good point. I live in the gun hating state of Illinois. Rifles are not allowed for hunting because of how far they can shoot. If someone told that powers that be Savages can shoot accurately to 350 yards, they would be illegal in a heart beat.

Personally, I am just happy that Savage will be selling more of these fine muzzleloaders.

Could not agree more Craigf, here in Ohio we have the same issue with "rifles shooting too far" and thus we must use shotguns and mzs. It has always concerned me that if Ohio DNR ever figured out that people shooting the Savage ML were attaining centerfire speeds, smokeless would be outlawed.

For those of you who do not have the limit of shotguns or mz's for deer, this is not a big issue, for those of us who do, making a big deal about smokeless in mz's is. I love both of my MLII's and what I am able to do with them including not having to clean the he77 out of them every time I shoot and would hate to have to give them up or go to BP in them.

[mike.dawson]

Watch what you say, they may read this, I leave Tampa every fall to hunt in Huron Co for Ohio Whitetail on my brothers farm. Florida is a non smokless state and BH209 fits the bill down here for that on deer, but you can shoot hogs with the Savage smokless.

Mike

[rangeball]

The only differences in the 10ML-II and the 10ML-BP, other than the model designation, are:

- A 3/8" hex head Breech Plug.

Will the new breech plug fit the 10ML II so you can remove it with a standard ratchet instead of the funky bp tool? If yes will savage be selling these individually for guys that want to upgrade?

[1shot1kill]

Jan 15, 2009 10:56:30 GMT -5 rangeball said:

The only differences in the 10ML-II and the 10ML-BP, other than the model designation, are:

- A 3/8" hex head Breech Plug.

Will the new breech plug fit the 10ML II so you can remove it with a standard ratchet instead of the funky bp tool? If yes will savage be selling these individually for guys that want to upgrade?

From what I was told by Brian Herrick, VP of Savage Arms, yes the breeck plugs are interchangeable. I should be getting some of those new breech plugs in the next couple weeks, so I will let you guys know for sure and what the specs are.

[jeremylong]

Thank goodness with the hex head breach plug. I get mad every time I look at mine. Someone needs a kick in the but for not changing it sooner. Special tools needed to maintain a gun, uhgg. Now if we could just standardize a ventliner / bushing to last 1,000 rounds Savage would have the market by the nuts.

With all of the various metal coatings I would think a little R&D money could find the answer.

[youp50]

Seems like a nice gun case they are throwing in.

[bigmoose]

Rossman40,

Do your concerns about the ML BP, Have anything to do with its being a shooter, The stock is all new, hopefully better than the orginal camo stock. Barrel a little long for woods hunting, but thats what hacksaws are for [smile]

[bigmoose]

Does anyone know the overall lenght of the rifle?

[Buckrub]

Yes.

From Cabela's Customer Service:

Product specifications:
Caliber: .50 209 shotshell primer ignition
Overall length: 44 inches
Barrel length: 24 inches
Weight: 7 3/4 pounds
Stock: Synthetic, Realtree Hardwoods® HD camo pattern with
positive checkering, dual pillar bedding.
Sights: Adjustable fiber optic; green rear sight fiber optic
red front sight.
Drilled and tapped for scope mounts.
Rifling Rate of Twist: 1 in 24
Features: New AccuTriggerTM, Stainless barreled action,
heavy contour, button-rifled barrel with crowned muzzle.
Sling swivel studs installed.
AccuTrigger is user adjustable down to 1 1/2 pound of pull
weight.

[rossman40]

My only concern with the BP is that if you bulge the barrel while using smokeless will Savage still stand behind it being that the BP is stamped "only recommended for use with black powder or an equivalent substitute".

The other changes are nothing new for centerfire guys but you have to be aware of them if you start swapping parts.

The large shank barrel is nothing new, the 10ML-I used the same thread and centerfires chambered for the WSM, RUM, and SAUM calibers and the Savage target actions also use it. Pacnor will have no problem threading the barrels and I think it may be a bit better as you could add a tad more meat to the chamber area. Factory barrels are stepped on the centerfires so that the barrel contour is the same as small shank barrels,



Aftermarket recoil lugs are available for the large shank. The front screw for the mount will require a closer look when installing due to the receiver being a bit thinner.

The action spacing is also nothing new. When Savage switched to the centerfeed magazine in 2006 on most centerfires they went to this spacing. I think the reason they did this for the BP was to use the stock from the model 10 predator hunter with the thicker recoil pad. This could cause a problem with aftermarket stocks as not all aftermarket stock makers have geared up to this new spacing. Besides I was always taught longer is better although 1/8" isn't going to make a big difference (Savage's target rifles in the past was built on the 112 action [112BT])

The breech plug is just an update as is the ramrod thimble. I just hope the new thimble will be attached with two screws instead of just one.

Barrel length is confusing, centerfires are measured from the muzzle to the breech end (sometimes from the muzzle to the cartridge base). The 10ML-II is speced at 24" but usable barrel is only 22" and then you have your powder charge on top of that. TB once told us here that Savage did make a 10ML for testing that had a 26" barrel (maybe Bill could verify). And with the "book" smokeless powders there was not a substantial enough gain to warrant the change to a longer barrel (supposedly the rifle is now owned by a Savage employee). Now for guys using slower then book powders or BP subs longer is better.

How many of the changes on the BP that get moved over to the 10ML-II in the future may be the question.

[bigmoose]

Rossman,

Thanks for the info.

Good Luck,

Marty

[esmd]

From Mr. Furious over on the Savage Shooter's board:

"Ok, here's the scoop on the 10ML-BP differences, straight from the mouth of Joe DeGrande.

1. Ramrod thimble is shaped differently and is a little longer in length
2. Breech plug now has a hex nut on the back rather than the 4-slots for the old removal tool.
3. 2" longer barrel
4. Barrel is a large shank rather than the standard shank like on the other 10ML-II models.
5. Action screw spacing on the BP is 4.40" to match the new centerfeed centerfires, while all other 10ML-II's still use the old staggered-feed spacing of 4.275"
6. These are only recommended for use with black powder or an equivalent substitute. NO SMOKELESS!

All other 10ML-II's will still come with the old style breech plug and ramrod until their current supply runs out. Whether or not they will change the screw spacing and barrel shank diameter on these like they have the BP is still unknown."

[savagebrother]

pointman, i wouldnt be to concerned-they know how fast we are going, they really dont care about speed of the bullet as much as speed of the shooter shooting multiple shots-you know slinging lead at a running deer. to put things in to perspective, a white muzzloader .50 cal. shooting 600 grain lead bullet at 1400 fps is very deadly at well over 1000 yards. so using lighter faster bullets is actually safer if your talking distance and chance hits on people.
sb
p.s. hearing scuttlebutt that they are thinking about centerfire rifles for the southeast part of the state because of the rising deer herd population. just preliminary though.

[missedagain]

I think it's great that Savage can sell it's muzleloader that is head and shoulders above the compitition through Cabelas.(Sorry 'bout the comparision but my scalp gets dry this time of year and their are still a few hairs left)
It's great that there will be more Savage ML shooters. (..and I'm glad that Savage didn't cheap out and lower their standards, even tho they could have when they agreed to sell the ML-10 as a BP onlymodel)
I'm dissapointed that Cabelas chose to state that BP and BP substututes are the ONLY safe and suitable propelents in ANY muzzleloader.
I'm living in Tompkins county of NY and it has been shotgun and muzzeloading for as long as I've been hunting. This will never change.( but that will be due to politics and not the safety record). I was corncerened that hunting oponents would pick up on shotgun sabots extended range and take measures to have them banned. They never did. There was no proof that the longer range CF rifles allowed in the Catskilles and Adarondaks where causing more accidents. IMO-It's unlikely that Savage muzzeloaders will be singled out for scrutiny.
Jeff

[DBinNY]

I think (and hope) that missedagain is right. Our portion of NY has long been shotgun/muzzleloader/handgun country and I actually feel like I have an advantage over the "less informed" crowd that doesn't shoot a Savage. In the past few years NY has allowed the use of CF rifles in some of the more sparsely populated counties of the southern tier which were formerly SG/MUZZ/HG only. There have been no incidents in any of these new rifle counties to suggest that the use of rifles is more dangerous and there is also research that suggests that SGs are actually more dangerous than CF rifles. Be that as it may, I don't anticipate that the the more densely populated counties are going to allow CFs any time soon.

As for Cabelas and Savage teaming up to sell a gun that is smokeless capable and denying it, I'm just not going to get my shorts in a knot over that. As long as those of us who know better have the option of shooting smokeless out of our guns I'm happy.

[bwana]

As most of you know,Cabela's now has a store in Winnipeg Manitoba Canada.They sell the 10MLII here as did SIR,the buisness that they bought out. Now,I'm no International Law Expert but I found it strange that Cabela's would sell the 10MLII in Canada but not in the USA.
Why Cabela's is doing the BP warning is strange but time will tell.